Bryce Harper 2018 and beyond

[Expos]

You're treading on thin ice if you're taking Pap's side on that one. Pap was psychotic and everyone knew it. That's why no one in baseball touched him after that incident.

You are forgetting why Pap choked him out in the 1st place.

He didn't run out a routine grounder which wasn't the first time. He is put on a pedestal by Rizzo and co. and I guarantee its sends a bad signal to the locker room.

He is the golden boy. The chosen one and is treated differently.

The simple fact is that we haven't won anything with him for 7 years and I see no reason why that will change especially if we sign him to a massive contract.

Let him go to Chicago and be in the spotlite and they wont win anything either there.

[Baseball is Life]

You are forgetting why Pap choked him out in the 1st place.

He didn't run out a routine grounder which wasn't the first time. He is put on a pedestal by Rizzo and co. and I guarantee its sends a bad signal to the locker room.

He is the golden boy. The chosen one and is treated differently.

The simple fact is that we haven't won anything with him for 7 years and I see no reason why that will change especially if we sign him to a massive contract.

Let him go to Chicago and be in the spotlite and they wont win anything either there.

Paps choked him because Harper criticized Paps for throwing at Machado a few days earlier. The running out a ball was just an excuse and everyone knew it.

This just in...stars get treated differently than other players.

Again, the "we have not won anything with him" argument is irrational. Too many factors go into it. The only question that matters at this point: "Is the team better with him in 2019 and beyond.?" If the past informs that discussion, then fine.

[fla nat]

He does have star quality, and that does put people in seats.

A few years back I happened to be in San Francisco and payed a pretty hefty price to see Barry Bonds and Pac Bell (as it was known then). I did not pay to see the Giants.  And yes, he did hit a splash home run, as did Mr. Harper a few years later.

[bluestreak]

It seems to me that the “we haven’t won anything with him here,” is a dumb argument. If that’s the case then Trout, Stanton, Goldschmidt, Arenado, Donaldson, Machado are all garbage.

If you want to say his stats don’t warrant what he is likely to get in free agency, that’s one thing. But putting all team success in him seems unfair.

[blue911]

I love the violence of his swing.

[DCFan]

He does have star quality, and that does put people in seats.

And he is the star of this team just as he has been most likely on every team he’s ever been on. And as such the rules are different for them. Always has been always will be. This shouldn’t be a revelation on this board.

Does that exempt him from running out ground balls? Hell no. Hopefully he’s learned. But as we saw the other night with Zim a seasoned veteran, he made a boneheaded play just as every player of any sport does on occasion. It’s not until a player shows he’s unable or unwilling to learn does it become a problem and Bryce is nowhere near that.

[DCFan]

I love the violence of his swing.

Maybe it’s me but just like his throwing has lost something it looks like his swing is not quite as violent as it was when he first started playing.

[Baseball is Life]

Maybe it’s me but just like his throwing has lost something it looks like his swing is not quite as violent as it was when he first started playing.

Swing is not as as violent (which is a good thing) but his throwing seems the same to me. But someone on this board a while back brought up a stat about his throwing velocity having decreased or something. Can't recall.

[DCFan]

Swing is not as as violent (which is a good thing) but his throwing seems the same to me. But someone on this board a while back brought up a stat about his throwing velocity having decreased or something. Can't recall.

The thing that stands out to me is that runners don’t have the fear they used to have when contemplating going first to third.

[Ray D]

Paps choked him because Harper criticized Paps for throwing at Machado a few days earlier. The running out a ball was just an excuse and everyone knew it.

Exactly right, and furthermore it's nonsense that he didn't run out the ground ball.  He stopped running when the out was complete at first base.

[Baseball is Life]

Exactly right, and furthermore it's nonsense that he didn't run out the ground ball.  He stopped running when the out was complete at first base.

Paps had a rep for being a nut job from the minute he entered MLB. Can't believe anyone on this board would use that choking incident as an indication that Harper is a clubhouse problem.

[Baseball is Life]

The thing that stands out to me is that runners don’t have the fear they used to have when contemplating going first to third.

Could be because they don't think he is particularly accurate?

[Baseball is Life]

I love the violence of his swing.

I like hitters that crush baseballs. Stanton is another one that comes to mind.

[Slateman]

The thing that stands out to me is that runners don’t have the fear they used to have when contemplating going first to third.

Why would they? He's as likely to overthrow it as he is to accurately throw them out.

[Slateman]

It seems to me that the “we haven’t won anything with him here,” is a dumb argument. If that’s the case then Trout, Stanton, Goldschmidt, Arenado, Donaldson, Machado are all garbage.

If you want to say his stats don’t warrant what he is likely to get in free agency, that’s one thing. But putting all team success in him seems unfair.

No is saying they are garbage. What we're saying is that they aren't vital to success. Particularly when you have to sink so much payroll into keeping them, when you actually need a lot of good players to make the playoffs consistently.

Bryce Harper hit .243/.373/.441 in 2016 and the Nationals won 95 games. He hit 273/.344/.423 and the Nats won 97. Because the team was constructed with a lot of good players, and wasn't bottlenecked in payroll by one.

It comes down to this: You can have 9 WAR Harper at 30-40 million a year, or a 6 WAR pitcher at 20 million, a 3 WAR catcher at 10 million, and have money for a quality reliever or a late season edition down the stretch. Yes Harper is good, but finding those players in your system and/or on the cheap is more difficult than replacing Harper's production.

[DCFan]

Why would they? He's as likely to overthrow it as he is to accurately throw them out.

Initially he put the fear of God in runners with the strength of his throws. Not anymore. Yes he airmailed some and missed the cutoff man but he nailed a few runners. I’m sure some stathead could pull up the number of outfield assists he had in his early years to now.

[Ray D]

With a runner going first to third, Harper used to airmail the ball to third, giving the cutoff guy no chance of cutting the ball, ensuring that the batter would reach second.  It made managers furious - well, at least Davey.  Harper now throws cutable balls (with runners on base) and that reduces (by a small percentage) the chance of throwing out the runner, but in the balance it's the better stragegy.

[Slateman]

With a runner going first to third, Harper used to airmail the ball to third, giving the cutoff guy no chance of cutting the ball, ensuring that the batter would reach second.  It made managers furious - well, at least Davey.  Harper now throws cutable balls (with runners on base) and that reduces (by a small percentage) the chance of throwing out the runner, but in the balance it's the better stragegy.

I think we've been watching other games

[rileyn]

Paps had a rep for being a nut job from the minute he entered MLB. Can't believe anyone on this board would use that choking incident as an indication that Harper is a clubhouse problem.

Paplebon played 13 seasons in the major leagues.  In all that time there was only one teammate he tried to choke.  And don't forget, although he was suspended for the last few games of that season, the Nationals brought him back the next year, after polling the clubhouse.  The rest of his teammates did not have a problem with him.

[Baseball is Life]

Paplebon played 13 seasons in the major leagues.  In all that time there was only one teammate he tried to choke. 

Are you sure you're not raising the bar too high?

Can't believe you're defending Papelbon.

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

What have we won since he has taken the mantle from Zimmerman?

What does that have to do with anything? Should the Angels let Mike Trout go because they haven’t won anything with him?

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

Paplebon played 13 seasons in the major leagues.  In all that time there was only one teammate he tried to choke.  And don't forget, although he was suspended for the last few games of that season, the Nationals brought him back the next year, after polling the clubhouse.  The rest of his teammates did not have a problem with him.

This is what I mean by the general dislike of Harper on these boards. You have someone who dislikes Harper so much that he’s willing to defend Papelbon.

[varoadking]

What does that have to do with anything? Should the Angels let Mike Trout go because they haven’t won anything with him?

Trout's most recent 6 year deal has an AAV of $24MM/

I'd almost be OK with that for Royce...

[mitlen]

I won't defend Papelbon but I remember before he laid his hands on Harper, Harper said something to him like, "Let's go."    Papelbon did.

[Elvir Ovcina]

Papelbon seems like the kind of guy who, 5 years after he's done playing, weighs 400 pounds.  That would make me happy.