Extend Rendon

[HalfSmokes]

You know I'm happily on the "Rizzo kind of sucks at a lot of his job" train. Apparently ownership likes to drive the bus when it comes to these big contracts, though, so they take some responsibility.

The point is that Rizzo puts them in a position where those deals become necessary - the braves are leading the division with a payroll $35 million below the nats

[nats4ever]

The point is that Rizzo puts them in a position where those deals become necessary - the braves are leading the division with a payroll $35 million below the nats

I always noticed your mouth is shut when the nats are winning, but pop out when they lose a game or two.

[nfotiu]

If you look at the top paid position players:
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/cash/batters/

very few of them are on good teams, and most are bad contracts that are hurting their team

The highest paid pitchers on the other hand are mostly on very good teams:
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/cash/pitching/

If Rizzo's MO is to have a lineup that consists of team controlled and short termed free agent position players, and spend the big money on pitchers, then he is following a similar philosophy to most of the perennially good teams.   

[Slateman]

The point is that Rizzo puts them in a position where those deals become necessary - the braves are leading the division with a payroll $35 million below the nats

The Braves also haven't been winning the division for the last 8 seasons

[HalfSmokes]

The Braves also haven't been winning the division for the last 8 seasons

If they win it this year, they’ll have three division title to the nats’ 4 in the last 8 years- not exactly a huge gap

[Slateman]

If they win it this year, they’ll have three division title to the nats’ 4 in the last 8 years- not exactly a huge gap

They took two years off to rebuild and reset their payroll

[varoadking]

Shouldn't this thread be re-titled "Exit Rendon?"

[Natsinpwc]

The point is that Rizzo puts them in a position where those deals become necessary - the braves are leading the division with a payroll $35 million below the nats

If Rizzo is so bad then ultimately it’s on the Lerners for not firing him.

[spidernat]

If Rizzo is so bad then ultimately it’s on MARTINEZ the Lerners for not firing him.

[NJ Ave]

I'm not saying they are cheap, I am saying they tend to take a hard line at a certain number and are comfortable with letting homegrown players walk. They did it to Jordan Zimmermann, Ian Desmond and Bryce Harper.

Then again, you could say that those decisions have kind of looked like the right decisions thus far?

I'm in the "pay Rendon" camp. However, let's not pretend there are no contrary arguments. Since 2005, there have been just four 3B who have put up 20+ WAR from age 30-37 (leaving A-Rod off the list because I think most people assume he was using PEDs during that period). 20 WAR would feel like the bare minimum for something like an 8/$250 million contract to even be an okay proposition. Only Adrian Beltre is really a guy where you'd say "that guy was a bargain" for that price and those years. You look at the way guys like Zimmerman, Longoria, Wright, Glaus, etc etc etc age from playing 3B and I can see the Nats being uncomfortable making the commitment.

[UMDNats]

Those moves all worked out, but they were more cut and dry - the arguments for letting them walk were pretty easy to see. And we had internal candidates ready to go immediately. Zimmermann leaves, fine, we can find another solid SP. Desmond - we had Turner. Harper? Soto & Robles.

Your point about 3Bs aging poorly isn't wrong. I guess I'm just not looking for a bargain and more looking for break-even if we can. I also think Rendon's bat ages more like Beltre than any of those other guys. He's patient and disciplined enough and gap-focused to (IMO) decline into a .800 OPS line-drive 3B or 1B.

[HalfSmokes]

Those moves all worked out, but they were more cut and dry - the arguments for letting them walk were pretty easy to see. And we had internal candidates ready to go immediately. Zimmermann leaves, fine, we can find another solid SP. Desmond - we had Turner. Harper? Soto & Robles.

Your point about 3Bs aging poorly isn't wrong. I guess I'm just not looking for a bargain and more looking for break-even if we can. I also think Rendon's bat ages more like Beltre than any of those other guys. He's patient and disciplined enough and gap-focused to (IMO) decline into a .800 OPS line-drive 3B or 1B.

For most of those guys, the bat wasn’t the problem, health was

[NJ Ave]

For most of those guys, the bat wasn’t the problem, health was

Right, I think the point of that data is that third basemen just don't age very well most of the time. It's a tough position. We don't really have to look very far to find another example of a third basemen whose bat should have played at first base as he aged, only he ended up never really being consistently healthy enough because of all his third base injuries.

And to be honest, I'd still pay him because I love Anthony Rendon. But I'd be prepared for the final half of the contract to be basically a complete waste.

[HalfSmokes]

Right, I think the point of that data is that third basemen just don't age very well most of the time. It's a tough position. We don't really have to look very far to find another example of a third basemen whose bat should have played at first base as he aged, only he ended up never really being consistently healthy enough because of all his third base injuries.

I agree, that’s why I don’t think you can say his bat will age well.

[UMDNats]

And to be honest, I'd still pay him because I love Anthony Rendon. But I'd be prepared for the final half of the contract to be basically a complete waste.

That's where I'm at - I'm happy to roll the dice because I trust that there's ways to deal with his crappy second-half of the contract in the event he sucks.

[Natsinpwc]

That's where I'm at - I'm happy to roll the dice because I trust that there's ways to deal with his crappy second-half of the contract in the event he sucks.

He can always move to 1B--the Nats have no long term answer there either.

[HalfSmokes]

He can always move to 1B--the Nats have no long term answer there either.

If they sign him to a huge long deal, I’d hope they do that sooner rather than later, you lose the value of his glove, but the bat will play anywhere

[Natsinpwc]

I agree, that’s why I don’t think you can say his bat will age well.

Josh Donaldson has 23 HRs already this year at age 33.  They should be able to get another 3-4 strong years from Tony. 

[Natsinpwc]

If they sign him to a huge long deal, I’d hope they do that sooner rather than later, you lose the value of his glove, but the bat will play anywhere

You move him when it looks like his defense is slipping.  No sign of that yet.  He is not a fat crap like Cabrera or Sandoval. 

[imref]

Bump

[HalfSmokes]

You move him when it looks like his defense is slipping.  No sign of that yet.  He is not a fat crap like Cabrera or Sandoval. 

Wright and Zimmerman weren’t fat either- you move him to prevent the breakdown that seems inevitable for thirdbasement

[Natsinpwc]

Wright and Zimmerman weren’t fat either- you move him to prevent the breakdown that seems inevitable for thirdbasement

Mike Schmidt never moved. Nor did Brooks Robinson.

[dracnal]

Mike Schmidt never moved. Nor did Brooks Robinson.

Okay. Two out of how many third basement since 1900?

[bluestreak]

Mike Schmidt never moved. Nor did Brooks Robinson.

Two of the top ten men to ever play the position. That’s the standard that we should expect for everyone.

[Slateman]

Okay. Two out of how many third basement since 1900?

Wade Boggs, Adrian Beltre  .... theres several. Third base is usually where guys get moved to