Offseason moves?

[WhiteWhale]

NYT best guess is that Tanaka will draw a $100M multi-year salary; in addition, any MLB team must pay Tanaka's club $20M to negotiate with with him.

Sounds like a pitcher the Nats might have bid for in 2010, but seems unlikely now. I would use that money to re-sign JZimm OR Desmond, and Ramos.

fixed. 120 will only get you one. It might come close to getting you one and Ramos...but not both of the big boys.

[HalfSmokes]

I'd like to either see extensions or signings - I don't have a strong preference, but I would prefer extensions. Right now, the window with these guys looks like two years- either extend the window by resigning your guys, or bring in new guys to bolster the chances during the window (fister is a great start- I still think they're a bat short) 

[welch]

fixed. 120 will only get you one. It might come close to getting you one and Ramos...but not both of the big boys.

More precisely, Tanaka-money could go towards signing JZimm, Desmond, and Ramos. Nobody assumes that $20M this year plus $100M over five or seven years gets the Nats all three of their players who will hit free agency soon.

[zimm_da_kid]

sign tanaka, trade zimmermann for chris davis.

[PC]

Tanaka not signing with the Nationals helps another team, ie the one he signs with, so it hurts the Nationals.

[HalfSmokes]

Tanaka not signing with the Nationals helps another team, ie the one he signs with, so it hurts the Nationals.

the same is true of every decent free agent- sign everyone

[varoadking]

Doesn't count against anything?  What does it not count against? If you're the Yankees who are pushing the salary penalty then that matters.  We aren't near that limit, so $20M is $20M whether it's salary or a posting fee.

The $20MM does not count towards the salary limit that triggers the penalty...only his salary would.

[HalfSmokes]

The $20MM does not count towards the salary limit that triggers the penalty...only his salary would.

which isn't an issue unless they're planning on adding an additional $75 million in salary

[Ray D]

The $20MM does not count towards the salary limit that triggers the penalty...only his salary would.

Yes that was my point, that since we are not approaching the limit, the fact that it doesn't apply is irrelevant in our case; in the Yankee's case, the fact that the posting fee does not apply to the limit is incentive for them to bid.

[PebbleBall]

Yes that was my point, that since we are not approaching the limit, the fact that it doesn't apply is irrelevant in our case; in the Yankee's case, the fact that the posting fee does not apply to the limit is incentive for them to bid.

I think you missed my point to begin with, which was that the money is irrelevant to begin with - not necessarily contrary to what you said.  What you said about the Yankees was my point in saying the Nats are better suited than others.  Regardless, it won't be seen in luxury tax calculations or payroll, now or in the future, so I don't know why a fan would care about it. The Nationals certainly have the resources for that kind of fee if they're interested in Tanaka.

[Ray D]

Nevermind who got whose point,  I still don't understand how the $20M is irrelevant.  Functionally it is equivalent to payroll - that is, there probably isn't a line item in a budget for "negotiating rights" so it probably goes in the payroll column, or another way to look at it, it is 20 million less that a GM has to spend on payroll.   

The Nationals have the resources, yes, but Rizzo is still operating on a budget.   In other words, yes we can afford it, but it would be $20M that would otherwise be spent on payroll, so is it money well-spent?

[HalfSmokes]

I think you missed my point to begin with, which was that the money is irrelevant to begin with - not necessarily contrary to what you said.  What you said about the Yankees was my point in saying the Nats are better suited than others.  Regardless, it won't be seen in luxury tax calculations or payroll, now or in the future, so I don't know why a fan would care about it. The Nationals certainly have the resources for that kind of fee if they're interested in Tanaka.

are you saying that it's totally off the books? I'm pretty sure that they'd actually have to pay it if they won the bidding- yes, it's not in the USA today payroll compilation, but so what, a $20 million payment to a japanese team isn't that different from a $20 million payment to a player (payroll taxes aside), especially when a team is in no danger of getting to the luxury tax threshold

[mitlen]

Let him stay in Japan.    It's a bribe.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Doesn't count against anything?  What does it not count against? If you're the Yankees who are pushing the salary penalty then that matters.  We aren't near that limit, so $20M is $20M whether it's salary or a posting fee.

Ray - the posting fee only gets paid if your team is the one that signs Tanaka.  Every team can say "oh, we'll pay $20MM to Rakuten (Tanaka's s old team) if Tanaka signs with us" even if they are not going to seriously seek to sign him.  It would be smart for Rizzo to do that just to throw up the smoke screen ("Oh, no, the crazy Nats are in this, who knows if they will offer Werth money") and hope he lures the Mets into a preemptive bid. 

The team Tanaka signs with does not count the $20MM against it luxury tax threshold.  For purposes of calculating the luxury tax, MLB only counts the money going to Tanaka, not Rakuten, towards the threshold.  The AAV of Tanaka's contract would be the hit against the threshold for each year he's signed. 

[PebbleBall]

Nevermind who got whose point,  I still don't understand how the $20M is irrelevant.  Functionally it is equivalent to payroll - that is, there probably isn't a line item in a budget for "negotiating rights" so it probably goes in the payroll column, or another way to look at it, it is 20 million less that a GM has to spend on payroll.   

The Nationals have the resources, yes, but Rizzo is still operating on a budget.   In other words, yes we can afford it, but it would be $20M that would otherwise be spent on payroll, so is it money well-spent?

At this point what would the $20 million be displacing?  If you counted it as payroll it would create a significant bump - but probably wouldn't put them in the top 5?  Regardless - it's gone after a year.

Without clouding the point too much, all I'm saying is it isn't an amount that would should hinder the Nats if they were interested in Tanaka.

[Slateman]

Without clouding the point too much, all I'm saying is it isn't an amount that would hinder the Nats if they were interested in Tanaka.

Uh, bro, L-A-C

[PebbleBall]

Uh, bro, L-A-C

fixed

[Mattionals]

Did the Nats sign Jeff Baker yet?

[Count Walewski]

SP is simply no longer a pressing need for this team. It's true that there's nothing else out there left to spend money on this year (no 1B are available, sadly) but Tanaka would likely be a long contract and would eventually run into our ability to extend existing players and sign other FAs.

[Slateman]

Did the Nats sign Jeff Baker yet?

Sorry, I have userped Rizzo yet

[CALSGR8]

Use the money to extend our current players.

[Slateman]

Sign a great pitcher, trade First Half JZ for a first baseman who can hit. Or a third baseman. Or a second baseman.

[RL04]

I cannot think of a team less in need of ... Tanaka than the Nationals

You can never have too much pitching.

Pretty much - this.

If Christy Mathewson, Walter Johnson or Grover Cleveland Alexander were to come out of the grave and be able to pitch, wouldn't you sign all of them?

I don't know how good Tanaka really is.

But every team (unless they go a season 162-0) can always use better players than what they currently have.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Tanaka does not have the physique of Darvish.  He looks small.  His velocity is in the 92-95 range using the japanese baseball, which is a little different than the US  one.  Maybe it is stuff that the Red Sox are pumping out to appease the fan base, but the writers here say they are being told he is more of a #2 or #3 and not an ace.   If his control diminishes using a US baseball, I'm not sure he has the velocity to be much more.

[blue911]

Tanaka does not have the physique of Darvish.  He looks small.  His velocity is in the 92-95 range using the japanese baseball, which is a little different than the US  one.  Maybe it is stuff that the Red Sox are pumping out to appease the fan base, but the writers here say they are being told he is more of a #2 or #3 and not an ace.   If his control diminishes using a US baseball, I'm not sure he has the velocity to be much more.

I've read 89-91, with only his splitter being a plus MLB pitch. Although his splitter is considered the best in pro ball. Also, Short not small.