Author Topic: 2011 Trade Watch (was trade deadline watch) (Read 85421 times)

Slateman · « **Reply #425 on:** July 27, 2011, 04:53:28 pm »

It can't be Span for Storen straight up. Even Rizzo would have to see thats not a good deal. Twins gotta cough up a prospect. I don't expect Hicks, but Hendericks or Carlos Gutierrez?

Maybe this trade is why we keep seeing so much Henry Rodriguez?

daveb32 · « **Reply #426 on:** July 27, 2011, 04:54:22 pm »

Quote from: PANatsFan on July 27, 2011, 04:51:24 pm

Montero is defintely overrated.

This. He's got a nice bat, but he won't be staying behind the plate.

PANatsFan · « **Reply #427 on:** July 27, 2011, 04:57:00 pm »

Storen for Span straight up is fantastic, wonderful, perfect. I like Storen as a person but a cf plays everyday.

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #428 on:** July 27, 2011, 04:59:30 pm »

Quote from: PANatsFan on July 27, 2011, 04:57:00 pm

Storen for Span straight up is fantastic, wonderful, perfect. I like Storen as a person but a cf plays everyday.

I think Span has proven he doesn't play "every day."

And on a good team, a good closer will appear in 60+ games.

PatsNats28 · « **Reply #429 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:00:38 pm »

WAR-wise, that's actually an excellent trade for the Nats. 2.6 WAR this season for Span (even after missing time) compared to 0.7 for Storen (Clip's got 0.7 as well, mainly cuz of his high HR/9 rate)

PANatsFan · « **Reply #430 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:01:48 pm »

Quote from: Minty Fresh on July 27, 2011, 04:59:30 pm

I think Span has proven he doesn't play "every day."

And on a good team, a good closer will appear in 60+ games.

Bastard-o and Contreras have closed for the Phils in recent times, a closer just isn't as important. Also 60 != 162.

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #431 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:03:42 pm »

Quote from: PANatsFan on July 27, 2011, 05:01:48 pm

Bastard-o and Contreras have closed for the Phils in recent times, a closer just isn't as important. Also 60 != 162.

Nobody plays 162 games. Nobody.

And I said "good closers" not "eh" closers on a good team. Storen's been groomed for this job as a college player. Not many of those out there. And Span isn't exactly Willie Mays.

PatsNats28 · « **Reply #432 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:05:45 pm »

Quote from: PANatsFan on July 27, 2011, 05:01:48 pm

Bastard-o and Contreras have closed for the Phils in recent times, a closer just isn't as important. Also 60 != 162.

More like 8.3 * 10^81

RD · « **Reply #433 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:06:17 pm »

Might as well trade Zimmermann for Span then, since he'll play in more games.

PANatsFan · « **Reply #434 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:08:18 pm »

Quote from: RD on July 27, 2011, 05:06:17 pm

Might as well trade Zimmermann for Span then, since he'll play in more games.

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #435 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:09:48 pm »

Quote from: RD on July 27, 2011, 05:06:17 pm

Might as well trade Zimmermann for Span then, since he'll play in more games.

Even I can't let this go...

Starters > Closers

Slateman · « **Reply #436 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:11:40 pm »

I just hate the idea of trading Storen. He's already very good, but young in his career. I kind of get Clippard. He's got a lot of innings on that arm. But Storen has a whole career ahead of him.

RD · « **Reply #437 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:13:02 pm »

If you're going to qualify the value of the player solely on the amount of games played, then starters are at the bottom of the value tree.

It's not that simple.

Maybe a great position player is more valuable than a great closer, but a great closer vs a solid position player is a different story.

I have no problem moving Storen in the right deal, but not just for a solid player like Span.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #438 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:16:40 pm »

I'd prefer to deal Clippard for Span, or Clippard and Desmond, but if it is Storen, an young, dirt cheap closer with several years before free agency, then I start to cringe. At this point, I don't care about what WAR says. I think closing is a skill in real life.

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #439 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:21:22 pm »

Span is an okay player but not a star.

Good BA and OBP this year but only 4 SBs and no power.

Storen should not be dealt in any package involving Span!!

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #440 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:23:06 pm »

Quote from: sportsnyan882 on July 27, 2011, 05:21:22 pm

Span is an okay player but not a star.

Good BA and OBP this year but only 4 SBs and no power.

Storen should not be dealt in any package involving Span!!

When not speaking nyan, he speaketh the truth!

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #441 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:27:14 pm »

We are underrating Span a great deal. This is not merely a "solid position player." He is one of the best defensive centerfielders in the game who is a good base runner and would be one of the better OBP guys leading off.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=12&season1=2011&ind=0

BerkeleyNat · « **Reply #442 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:28:27 pm »

Quote from: sportsnyan882 on July 27, 2011, 05:21:22 pm

Span is an okay player but not a star.

Good BA and OBP this year but only 4 SBs and no power.

Storen should not be dealt in any package involving Span!!

I agree. I just remember a few years back when we couldn't close out a game to save our asses. I remember feeling that the game was lost when Hanrahan entered the game to close. I think we have a good closer in Storen and I wouldn't want to see him traded unless it was a good trade that significantly upgraded this team. I don't think Storen for Span meets that criteria.

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #443 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:28:52 pm »

Rizzo is obsessed with toolsy CFers so nothing would surprise me at this point. But trading your young closer who is excelling in his first fool season in the Bigs and appears to have the perfect mentality to handle the job long term is very questionable.

I am underwhelmed by Span's stats. He is an improvement over what we have but at what cost will it take to bring him in?

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #444 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:31:32 pm »

Quote from: sportsnyan882 on July 27, 2011, 05:21:22 pm

Span is an okay player but not a star.

Good BA and OBP this year but only 4 SBs and no power.

Storen should not be dealt in any package involving Span!!

2008 - 18 steals, 2009 - 23, 2010 - 26.

Basically, once you throw out Franklin Gutierez, he's in a league with Bourn as the next best defensive CF over the past 3 year per UZR. That's multiple years of data, so you can be relatively confident in it.

aspenbubba · « **Reply #445 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:32:15 pm »

Quote from: Minty Fresh on July 27, 2011, 05:03:42 pm

Nobody plays 162 games. Nobody.

Espy is chasing that.

NatsSince05 · « **Reply #446 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:32:30 pm »

Quote from: PANatsFan on July 27, 2011, 04:57:00 pm

Storen for Span straight up is fantastic, wonderful, perfect. I like Storen as a person but a cf plays everyday.

Storen could be our closer for the next decade. Span is a good, but far from elite, player. I don't believe the Nats would make this trade.

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #447 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:32:34 pm »

Quote from: JCA-CrystalCity on July 27, 2011, 05:27:14 pm

We are underrating Span a great deal. This is not merely a "solid position player." He is one of the best defensive centerfielders in the game who is a good base runner and would be one of the better OBP guys leading off.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=12&season1=2011&ind=0

His Power and Steals have been way down the last two seasons. These are red flags in my mind unless there is something that can explain them.

2008: .432 SLG and 18 SBs in 347 ABs
2009: .415 SLG and 23 SBs in 578 ABs
2010: .348 SLG and 26 SBs in 629 ABs
2011: .385 SLG and 4 SBs in 231 ABs

The only reason his slugging is slightly up this year is that his BA is 30 points higher than last year. Doubles, Triples, HRs all down.

TylerDC · « **Reply #448 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:34:23 pm »

It's really not as simple as saying 2 WAR > .9 WAR, let's do it.

Kevrock · « **Reply #449 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:34:34 pm »

I really hope it's not Storen for Span.