2011 Trade Watch (was trade deadline watch)

[wpa2629]

How do you know the Lerners(AC) won't tighten the budget after the Werth and Maya failures? Those signings may harm us for years to come. That has yet to be determine yet.

Maya is taking up roster space in the Minors and on the 40 man roster spot. And we are paying him a good chunk of money too!

The Nats have been talking for years how they want to expand our presence into Latin America and beyond and we have Yunesky Maya and his 1-7 record and 5.32 AAA ERA this season.

Your penchant for declarative absolutes based on purse speculation is just annoying.

Maya is nothing, he is of no concern. Want to nag non-stop about Rizzo, pick something real to nag about, like Stairs

[Slateman]

We're under 60 million. How much more can they tighten up the budget? They tried not spending money and it didn't work. They buy a high priced free agent, spend some more cash on the Latin and Asian markets, spend some cash internally and the team is greatly improved. I bet ticket sales and revenues are way up.

If we aren't willing to trade a guy who is almost MLB ready, we have to give up someone who has more upside. Like Cole or Perez or Norris. At worst, Peacock is middle relief fodder. At best, he develops a changeup and becomes a number 4 starter. We havefour number 4 guys in the rotation right now. Its not that hard to get another one.

[MarquisDeSade]

I bet ticket sales and revenues are way up.

Holding steady at ~22K/game (15th of 16th in NL) even with $2 Tuesdays and $1 Dog Nights. 

[Smithian]

How do you know the Lerners(AC) won't tighten the budget after the Werth and Maya failures? Those signings may harm us for years to come. That has yet to be determine yet.

How do you know the risky Maya and Werth signings aren't signs the Lerners are putting their money on the table and are ready to wheel and deal and take chances? This has yet to be determined yet.

[d_mc_nabb]

At best, he develops a changeup and becomes a number 4 starter. We havefour number 4 guys in the rotation right now. Its not that hard to get another one.

Just like Jordan Zimmermann was a #2-3? I disagree. A better changeup could make him a good #2, nice to slide in at 3, IMO.

[RD]

Just like Jordan Zimmermann was a #2-3? I disagree. A better changeup could make him a good #2, nice to slide in at 3, IMO.

Zimmermann is still only a 2. A very good two. He's not an ace. He needs to become more dominant at finishing guys off. He's still improving and could get there, as soon as next year, but he's not a true #1 just yet.

Peacock is a guy Im hoping finds his way into the rotation next year, but he's not a sure thing and his ceiling definitely isn't as high as Zimmermann's. 3 at best, most likely a 4/5. While he is still relatively young, its unlikely the change up comes far enough to be a consistent enough pitch for him to be a frontline guy. He can be included in a deal to upgrade the team somewhere else.

As far as Span ... Id go Coffey, Milone, and Desmond if that is enough to entice Minnesota. Milone seems to be their type of pitcher and could do well in that yard. He could possibly even help their pen this year down the stretch if they wanted to give him a shot.

[PC]

Zimmermann is still only a 2. A very good two. He's not an ace. He needs to become more dominant at finishing guys off. He's still improving and could get there, as soon as next year, but he's not a true #1 just yet.

You're using the terms "ace" and "#1" interchangeably but they're not the same.  Jordan Zimmermann is not an ace but he is a #1.  There are very few aces in major league baseball, a handful or two, at most.  The circle of #1's  is wider and Jordan is in it.  Pick the pitcher-specific metric and Jordan rank well among those considered to be #1.

[RD]

Ace and true #1 are the same thing.

Sure, he'd be a #1 on Houston, but that doesn't mean he's a legitimate #1 starter. He's not a #1 on a playoff contender IMO.

He's still young, still improving so he could be one day. He's not there yet though.

[UMDNats]

Zimmermann is 9th in baseball in FIP.

Oh, and that's  better than Cliff Lee, Lincecum, Felix, Garza, C.J. Wilson....and many others.

But no, he's not a #1.

Labels are stupid.

[IronPig]

Zimmermann is 9th in baseball in FIP.

Oh, and that's  better than Cliff Lee, Lincecum, Felix, Garza, C.J. Wilson....and many others.

But no, he's not a #1.

Labels are stupid.

Zimmermann is looking good, but to put him in the same conversation with Lee or Lincecum is silly. You have to look at a body of work - Zimmermann just doesn't mow through teams yet.

[PANatsFan]

Zimmermann is looking good, but to put him in the same conversation with Lee or Lincecum is silly. You have to look at a body of work - Zimmermann just doesn't mow through teams yet.

That's what statistics do, they summarize a whole season

[IronPig]

That's what statistics do, they summarize a whole season

Sure - and he is not an overpowering pitcher. That is not to say he isn't a very good pitcher, but he isn't at that next level yet. That's all.

[tomterp]

Zimmermann is looking good, but to put him in the same conversation with Lee or Lincecum is silly. You have to look at a body of work - Zimmermann just doesn't mow through teams yet.

Plenty of pitchers have a better body of work - but how much should that factor in to deciding who you want out on the mound now, next year, the next several years?  Walter Johnson has a pretty solid career body of work, but nobody's suggesting we exhume his arm. 

[IronPig]

Plenty of pitchers have a better body of work - but how much should that factor in to deciding who you want out on the mound now, next year, the next several years?  Walter Johnson has a pretty solid career body of work, but nobody's suggesting we exhume his arm. 

Because unless you put a team around him, that is going to be a wasted arm you end up dealing in the next few years anyway - just ask Cleveland what it meant to have great arms and no team. Or great arms and not compete.

[tomterp]

Because unless you put a team around him, that is going to be a wasted arm you end up dealing in the next few years anyway - just ask Cleveland what it meant to have great arms and no team. Or great arms and not compete.

Sure.

Nats are in a position where they have some holes, but not too many that they can't make a run at filling them.  CF/leadoff, LF, SS, top of the rotation (Stras).

A healthy Zimmerman, Werth returning to recent (pre-2011) form, a modest improvement to rookies Espinosa and Ramos, and their is a solid base from which to work.  Wild cards would include a possible return by LaRoche (which would allow Morse to fill LF).

[IronPig]

Sure.

Nats are in a position where they have some holes, but not too many that they can't make a run at filling them.  CF/leadoff, LF, SS, top of the rotation (Stras).

A healthy Zimmerman, Werth returning to recent (pre-2011) form, a modest improvement to rookies Espinosa and Ramos, and their is a solid base from which to work.  Wild cards would include a possible return by LaRoche (which would allow Morse to fill LF).

Forget Werth. At best, you can hope he bats for average. He was well protected in a Phillies line up that won by hitting Homeruns. Frankly, the Phillies were looking to deal him much of last season before the deadline before he started hitting again. The guy has never had 100 RBIs, swings at awful pitches and is not a .300 hitter.

He has to be treated like your Barry Zito. Gave him a boatload of cash, he is not as good as you thought, hope for anything.

As for the holes, sure, they are fillable - but if i'm the Nats, I go after arms. If Sabathia opts out this year (which I think he will) - I offer him Lee money.

[PterodactylKev]

Forget Werth. At best, you can hope he bats for average. He was well protected in a Phillies line up that won by hitting Homeruns. Frankly, the Phillies were looking to deal him much of last season before the deadline before he started hitting again. The guy has never had 100 RBIs, swings at awful pitches and is not a .300 hitter.

Swings at horrible pitches and stares at great pitches... doesn't make sense

[UMDNats]

Sure.

Nats are in a position where they have some holes, but not too many that they can't make a run at filling them.  CF/leadoff, LF, SS, top of the rotation (Stras).

A healthy Zimmerman, Werth returning to recent (pre-2011) form, a modest improvement to rookies Espinosa and Ramos, and their is a solid base from which to work.  Wild cards would include a possible return by LaRoche (which would allow Morse to fill LF).

[tomterp]

 

Multitasking = not doing anything well.

[wpa2629]

uh oh Spelling Nazi is not pleased

[Slateman]

The wait is killing me!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, I think the next week is going to be insane with the MLB Trade Deadline and The NFL Lockout being lifted ...

[Slateman]

Holding steady at ~22K/game (15th of 16th in NL) even with $2 Tuesdays and $1 Dog Nights. 

Are you sure? Just curious, where did you get your stats? 22K a game isn't bad for a .500 ball club. Thats not counting revenue from things like jersey sales. I mean, seriously, how many Werth jerseys do you see at the stadium? I gotta assume that the ball club gets half of what one of those goes for.

Also, what as attendance last year and the year before?

[MarquisDeSade]

Are you sure? Just curious, where did you get your stats?

Baseball Reference has it and I also collect them via screen scrubs for analysis.  We're down a couple of hundred per average from last year but holding steady since we moved into Nats Park with the 2008 AAAa squad.  

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/WSN/attend.shtml

I mean, seriously, how many Werth jerseys do you see at the stadium? I gotta assume that the ball club gets half of what one of those goes for.

Very few Werth shirts and I never see any Werth jerseys.  Last year was probably a bigger year for sales due to Strasburg.

[Slateman]

I've seen a ton every time I've gone to a game

[MarquisDeSade]

I've seen a ton every time I've gone to a game

A fool and his money were lucky enough to get together in the first place.  Still, $22K average even with Phillies infestations and $1 Mondays and $2 Tuesdays.