2012 free agency

[HalfSmokes]

That requires the team eating laroche's contract - I'm not sure they won't try to showcase him for a while with Marrero in AAA (unless they'd rather win games, in which case LaRoche would be a nice bench bat)

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I'm with Dave Cameron's on his conjecture that corner position guys who are not pull hitters develop their power later and can seem to have their power questioned when they are young.  He pointed to Votto and Adrian as two examples.  It seems that Marrero is that type of a hitter.  Starting another year in the minors isn't really a waste in terms of development if you are concerned about power, but I would not write him off as a guy who can eventually develop to a 25 HR a year type.  If he misses that, he might be Lyle Overbay, which would not be a disaster.

[hammondsnats]

no slateman, we could use another big bat.

but adding a CF is crucial, unless werth plays out there and harper is ready.

[HalfSmokes]

no slateman, we could use another big bat.

but adding a CF is crucial, unless werth plays out there and harper is ready.

I think we could use OBP more than anything in the lineup

[Slateman]

I don't define Laroche as a big bat either.

[DPMOmaha]

I just think it will be impossible to trade LaRoche this off-season until we see him healthy.  If that Marrero spends half the year or more in AAA because of it, then so be it, won't be the first player to stay down for a while after he's ready, won't be the last.  It's a good problem to have.

[HalfSmokes]

I just think it will be impossible to trade LaRoche this off-season until we see him healthy.  If that Marrero spends half the year or more in AAA because of it, then so be it, won't be the first player to stay down for a while after he's ready, won't be the last.  It's a good problem to have.

I'm tired of sacrificing games in order to showcase players who end up getting traded for little to nothing- is the team trying to win or not? With Strass and the Zimmerman(n)s healthy to start next year, we should be looking to make a run at atleast the wild card, not trying to get something out of a contract that didn't work. If Marrero and Morse put the team in a better position to win, LaRoche should be on the bench

[Evolution33]

If Marrero ends up winning the job in Spring Training then I don't think the Nationals would have a problem with either releasing LaRoche or leaving him on the bench. He is being paid less than Guzman when he lost his starting job.

[DPMOmaha]

I'm tired of sacrificing games in order to showcase players who end up getting traded for little to nothing- is the team trying to win or not? With Strass and the Zimmerman(n)s healthy to start next year, we should be looking to make a run at atleast the wild card, not trying to get something out of a contract that didn't work. If Marrero and Morse put the team in a better position to win, LaRoche should be on the bench

I don't really think there's that much difference between healthy LaRoche and Marrero.  LaRoche has been a pretty consistent 25 HR, 85-90 RBI guy and has a career .815 OPS.  That's better than what I think we'll get from Marrero next year.  There's no sacrificing of wins in playing LaRoche in his final year of his contract over Marrero, IMO.

[Slateman]

The question is, does Laroche come back healthy? Should take six months, but shoulders can be kind of tricky.

And if Marrero really does mirror Joey Votto and Adrian Gonzalez, should we really trade him?

[Lintyfresh85]

OPS in the minors is over .800 the past two seasons. Not sure he can learn a whole lot more in the minors.

Not to question that logic... but Norris has had an OPS over .800 the last four years. Does that mean he doesn't have a lot more to learn in the minors?

[DPMOmaha]

The question is, does Laroche come back healthy? Should take six months, but shoulders can be kind of tricky.

And if Marrero really does mirror Joey Votto and Adrian Gonzalez, should we really trade him?

True, but he's not a pitcher.  I'm not overly concerned about his recovery and from everything we've heard he was coming along nicely.  Hopefully that's not just smoke they're blowing.  But if he does come back healthy we'll want him in the lineup.  Especially since we don't have a much coming from the left side of the plate. If Marrero does turn into Votto or AGon, then no, of course we don't want to trade him, and I don't expect him to be unless we get a big return.  I expect one more year in AAA for him and taking the job for good in 2013.

[hammondsnats]

Not to question that logic... but Norris has had an OPS over .800 the last four years. Does that mean he doesn't have a lot more to learn in the minors?

doesn't norris have defensive problems though?  something marrero really improved upon this past year.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Re: 2012 free agency
« Reply #384 on: Today at 11:01:16 AM »Quote
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The question is, does Laroche come back healthy? Should take six months, but shoulders can be kind of tricky.

And if Marrero really does mirror Joey Votto and Adrian Gonzalez, should we really trade him?

don't get me wrong - he's not going to turn into Votto, and while it is fun to look at the parallels to AG's offensive development in the minors and majors, that is still a probably unreasonable best case.  However, what the conjecture that opposite field power being late to develop and underrated early, if correct, suggests is that there is that it is not WYSIWYG with Marrero's home runs to date.  He isn't hitting dribblers to get his average up. The doubles will turn into homers and the liners will find gaps between OFs and not be held to singles.

[cmdterps44]

If Marrero ends up winning the job in Spring Training then I don't think the Nationals would have a problem with either releasing LaRoche or leaving him on the bench. He is being paid less than Guzman when he lost his starting job.

I think the right thing to say is we, the fans, don't have a problem with releasing LaRoche. Look how long it took to drop Stairs... and we're paying LaRoche a lot more.

[HalfSmokes]

I don't really think there's that much difference between healthy LaRoche and Marrero.  LaRoche has been a pretty consistent 25 HR, 85-90 RBI guy and has a career .815 OPS.  That's better than what I think we'll get from Marrero next year.  There's no sacrificing of wins in playing LaRoche in his final year of his contract over Marrero, IMO.

laroche has traditionally sucked to start off the season (often enough that's it's hard to argue fluke or sample size), so a half season of his suck, career .246 .324 .435 first half line, followed by a trade seems to me to be sacrificing wins

[Baseball is Life]

I actually would like to get rid of both Laroche AND Marerro so Morse plays there. Morse is a below average defensive LF and an above average defensive 1B. If you get a CF for Laroche and/or Marerro, you can put Harper in LF and be set.

[HalfSmokes]

I actually would like to get rid of both Laroche AND Marerro so Morse plays there. Morse is a below average defensive LF and an above average defensive 1B. If you get a CF for Laroche and/or Marerro, you can put Harper in LF and be set.

I agree unless Morse nets us an ace level pitcher (i.e. would you do Morse for say Bumgarner- I knows the giants probably wouldn't, but they have some some pretty stupid things)

[Slateman]

Who cares about defense. We need runs. Defense is moot.

And I still don't think Morse is any better at first than Marrero.

[Lintyfresh85]

Random outfielder is better at outfield than Morse is, though.

[RD]

Johnny Gomes and Laynce Nix aren't any better.

I dont think there's any reason for concern in regards to LaRoche and his health. He'll be fine. He's a position player, and a 1st baseman at that. The shoulder injury won't hinder him one bit. If Marrero beats him out in the spring, great. If not, I dont think its a big problem having Marrero get a little more seasoning at AAA next year.

Whether its Marrero or LaRoche, we should get a lot more offense out of that spot. Morse replaces Gomes/Nix/Bernadina/Ankiel in the OF, but basically its Marrero/LaRoche replacing those guys. And whether it's a .260/25 HR LaRoche season or a .280/15 HR season for Marrero, I think it's an improvement.

I also dont think LaRoche is immovable, especially once the spring starts and he shows he's fine. He's a known commodity with one year left on his deal. Even if hes healthy and playing like he normally does, I dont think he fetches any big prize. So trading him for a lower tier prospect shouldn't be that difficult. We just have to accept that's what we'll get for him.

[Smithian]

Morse has been rough in the OF....

[RD]

I dont think anyone has ever said he's any good out there.

But considering the alternatives, he's not that bad. He's no worse than Nix or Gomes, and getting the bats of LaRoche or even Marrero in there over those kinds of guys is better for the team.

[DPMOmaha]

laroche has traditionally sucked to start off the season (often enough that's it's hard to argue fluke or sample size), so a half season of his suck, career .246 .324 .435 first half line, followed by a trade seems to me to be sacrificing wins

If we're in the race at the trade deadline, I doubt that he gets traded.  Even if we get the slow starting LaRoche, I still don't think Marrero's going to be significantly better in his rookie campaign.  So, if we're looking at a player that's going to be fairly comperable offensively to the kid on the farm, that's where the defense does come into play and where I'd give LaRoche the upper hand.  Marrero's ok at first but some more time at AAA wouldn't be a bad thing.  I guess it all comes down to what the FO intends for next year to be.  I think there's a real possibility that it could be a 80-85 win team.  If it is, I think they'll go with LaRoche.  If they can get it to that 80-85 win range, then we're in lightning in a bottle territory and then things will get really interesting.

Who cares about defense. We need runs. Defense is moot.

And I still don't think Morse is any better at first than Marrero.

Well, it's not moot.  Your top 8 defensive teams are Arizona, Boston, Cincy, Tampa, Anaheim, New York Yanks, Rangers and Brewers.  That's at least 5 playoff teams and two that are making a charge.  It definately means something.  Nats are nowhere near the top of that list right now.  LaRoche would be a pretty big key to righting that a bit.  Desmond's still got to field the ball and having Zim healthy a full season will be big too.  But it's not insignificant and it can't be ignored unless the rest of your team is so far above and beyond the rest of the league to make up for it, like the Phillies and Braves pitching staffs are.

[Lintyfresh85]

Johnny Gomes and Laynce Nix aren't any better.

Then get off the checkbook and pay for a legit MLB OF'er... or make a trade.

Why would I suggest platoon players as Morse's replacement in LF?