2012 free agency

[UMDNats]

but that's where the problem is ... it's pretty much the same line-up as this year.   yeah we get a whole year of zimmerman (knock on wood), laroche is a better everyday option than gomes/nix (i like those guys as bench guys) and the young kids will have another year of experience under their belts ... but imo, that's not a line-up that would take us to the postseason or magically give us a more substantial amount of wins than we had this year.

Add in an upgrade in CF via trade (which I think is likely), replace Nix with LaRoche, get a better year from Werth and possibly replace Desmond with Lombardozzi, and the lineup is better.

I'm all for improving the offense but signing Fielder to the money he is going to get is not prudent.

[HalfSmokes]

Add in an upgrade in CF via trade (which I think is likely), replace Nix with LaRoche, get a better year from Werth and possibly replace Desmond with Lombardozzi, and the lineup is better.

I'm all for improving the offense but signing Fielder to the money he is going to get is not prudent.

our LF this year has put up .261/.314/.440

Laroche's career averages are .267/.337/.478

Assuming he comes back and immediately hits career form, it's an upgrade, but not a huge one

[hammondsnats]

Halfsmokes, I don't think anyone will argue with you about LaRoche being just a slight upgrade to what our options were this year.  My problem with this all is we're not going to make this big jump next year if we stand pat. 

It's a given we need a leadoff hitter - whether that comes with Lombardozzi or a CF (which is a must no matter where he bats in the line-up).  But we still need more. 

[Baseball is Life]

You get the feeling that as soon as Harper is ready for LF they will be looking to unload LaRoche and move Morse back to 1B. So both of those positions are set IMO.

What they need is a leadoff CF. And starting pitching. Always need starting pitching. Every team in the league does, just about.

[HalfSmokes]

Halfsmokes, I don't think anyone will argue with you about LaRoche being just a slight upgrade to what our options were this year.  My problem with this all is we're not going to make this big jump next year if we stand pat. 

It's a given we need a leadoff hitter - whether that comes with Lombardozzi or a CF (which is a must no matter where he bats in the line-up).  But we still need more. 

that's my point- I don't want a slight upgrade- our offense will just be slightly better than sputtering.

[HalfSmokes]

You get the feeling that as soon as Harper is ready for LF they will be looking to unload LaRoche and move Morse back to 1B. So both of those positions are set IMO.

What they need is a leadoff CF. And starting pitching. Always need starting pitching. Every team in the league does, just about.

Harper won't be ready until at least 2013

[hammondsnats]

that's my point- I don't want a slight upgrade- our offense will just be slightly better than sputtering.

that's why we need fielder

[UMDNats]

that's why we need fielder

OK, you give Fielder a contract bigger than Werth's. Fine.

Then you cut LaRoche so you don't have 3 first basemen. No one will trade for him coming off his injury. So you then eat $8 million.

Then you move Morse to LF. Dandy! Man, we're gonna be so good.

Oh wait, all of the sudden it's 2014 and we have $40 million invested in two players and Zimmerman wants the same deal. So now, $60 million in 3 players. Oh crap! Strasburg needs a new deal soon, too. And Zimmermann!

[Kevrock]

Are there any FA Center Fielders to target?

[HalfSmokes]

OK, you give Fielder a contract bigger than Werth's. Fine.

Then you cut LaRoche so you don't have 3 first basemen. No one will trade for him coming off his injury. So you then eat $8 million.

Then you move Morse to LF. Dandy! Man, we're gonna be so good.

Oh wait, all of the sudden it's 2014 and we have $40 million invested in two players and Zimmerman wants the same deal. So now, $60 million in 3 players. Oh crap! Strasburg needs a new deal soon, too. And Zimmermann!

This logic works well with Harper too

Oh wait, all of the sudden it's 2015 and we have $40 million invested in two players and Strasburg wants the same deal. So now, $60 million in 3 players. Oh crap! Zimmermann needs a new deal soon, too. And Harper! And Espinosa and Morse

[MarquisDeSade]

that's why we need fielder

No.  Absolutely not.  You know what would happen if we signed him or any of the other "big fish" free agents out on the market.  Take you pick from any of the following:

- They get caught with two tons of steroids and cocaine in the back of a Ford Focus on I-95 North
- They come under investigation for bankrolling an underground bareknuckle street fighting club
- They get injured in their second plate appearance during the regular season doing a warm-up swing and are out for 3-4 seasons
- They get into a fight with Screech after striking out five times in a game against Anibal Sanchez Clayton Kershaw
- All of the above

[hammondsnats]

OK, you give Fielder a contract bigger than Werth's. Fine.

Then you cut LaRoche so you don't have 3 first basemen. No one will trade for him coming off his injury. So you then eat $8 million.

Then you move Morse to LF. Dandy! Man, we're gonna be so good.

Oh wait, all of the sudden it's 2014 and we have $40 million invested in two players and Zimmerman wants the same deal. So now, $60 million in 3 players. Oh crap! Strasburg needs a new deal soon, too. And Zimmermann!

wow all that money we saved up over the years could come in handy ... oh wait. 

look i realize fielder is going to be a pipe dream.  but i'm just not looking forward to next year when we're sitting with the same roster and people at this time next year are going to be nagging about a medicore MLB product while the FO continues to applaud their hard work on the draft picks. 

[hammondsnats]

No.  Absolutely not.  You know what would happen if we signed him or any of the other "big fish" free agents out on the market.  Take you pick from any of the following:

- They get caught with two tons of steroids and cocaine in the back of a Ford Focus on I-95 North
- They come under investigation for bankrolling an underground bareknuckle street fighting club
- They get injured in their second plate appearance during the regular season doing a warm-up swing and are out for 3-4 seasons
- They get into a fight with Screech after striking out five times in a game against Anibal Sanchez
- All of the above

please serious discussion only.  take your marlins fetish and move to out of town scoreboard.

[imref]

i worry that signing fielder to a big contract will be a disaster as he grows to 300lbs in a couple of years and becomes a huge liability at 1st.  I'd spend the money on CJ Wilson first and foremost, we need 3 top starters to compete with Philly.

[MarquisDeSade]

please serious discussion only.  take your marlins fetish and move to out of town scoreboard.

Changed it to Clayton Kershaw just for you Hammonds.  While my post was a joke there's a bit of truth to it.  Fielder would be a disastrous signing for us.  Not just because of the potential of him growing to whale size but the potential of him getting injured and missing 40-60 games a season.  Really, I'd rather have Morse at 1B, LaRoche discarded to the land of forgotten toys and CJ Wilson added to the rotation.  Fielder - 5 HRs ~ Morse.

[Evolution33]

The Nationals have score 0.28 less runs a game than the Atlanta Braves who lead the NL Wild Card. Having a healthy Zimmerman for an entire season, Werth returning to career averages, adding a career .815 OPS hitter to the line-up over a career .716 OPS, and finding a lead-off hitter better than a .270 OBP even if it is Coco Crisp and his career .331 OBP will all help and I think could add a quarter of a run a game.

[hammondsnats]

Changed it to Clayton Kershaw just for you Hammonds.  While my post was a joke there's a bit of truth to it.  Fielder would be a disastrous signing for us.  Not just because of the potential of him growing to whale size but the potential of him getting injured and missing 40-60 games a season.  Really, I'd rather have Morse at 1B, LaRoche discarded to the land of forgotten toys and CJ Wilson added to the rotation.  Fielder - 5 HRs ~ Morse.

but dude there's a chance anyone goes down with a long-term injury.  look @ zim, he's only had one year where he was really affected by an injury for two months and then this year he gets another one.

games played by fielder over the years:

2005   21yo   39 games
2006   22yo   157 games
2007   23yo   158  games
2008   24yo   159 games
2009   25yo   162 games
2010   26yo   161 games
2011   27yo   131 games

and i'm fine with adding c.j. wilson ... but i still haven't gotten an answer from anyone to convince me this offense is somehow going to have a complete turnaround. 

[UMDNats]

This logic works well with Harper too

Oh wait, all of the sudden it's 2015 and we have $40 million invested in two players and Strasburg wants the same deal. So now, $60 million in 3 players. Oh crap! Zimmermann needs a new deal soon, too. And Harper! And Espinosa and Morse

of course it can. but our in-house options for the next couple years are far more cost-effective, making those huge contracts to our home-grown guys easier to swallow

[MarquisDeSade]

and i'm fine with adding c.j. wilson ... but i still haven't gotten an answer from anyone to convince me this offense is somehow going to have a complete turnaround. 

Well, obviously that depends on injuries.  I just can't see adding Prince Fielder really being an improvement for the team if we still don't have a leadoff guy with an OBP over .340 or a two hole guy that doesn't strikeout 150+ times a year. 

[Slateman]

Are there any FA Center Fielders to target?

Coco Crisp. Its why Hammonds and I have been so adamant about trading for one. Its why I was angry at Rizzo for not trading for Bourn when the key piece wanted was Detwiler.

As for Prince Fielder, no thanks. He's going to want at least 20 million a year. With Boras/Rizzo relationship, we'll over pay. So thats 25-30 million a year not invested in our franchise piece (Zimmerman).

Frankly, I think Fielder is overrated. His defense is still awful. He makes Morse/Marrero/Nix look good. On top of that, he just happens to be having a career year in a contract year. I've heard this before.

Tossing out this year, Fielder is hitting .279/.386/.536. In the past two seasons, Morse is hitting .306/.364/.538. We're getting similar production from Morse at a fraction of what it will cost. Even if Morse is hitting at 80% of what Fielder does, its still a good deal.

You guys can sit there and complain about the offense all you want, but there are only  a couple teams that are going to make the playoffs on overpowering offense. The Phillies, Giants, Diamondbacks and Braves are all in the hunt because they pitch well.

Don't go out and blow all the cash on a fat, poor fielding first baseman when we're stocked at first base as it is. Let's find a way to get what we need. Centerfielder, lead off hitter, better pitching.

[UMDNats]

my point is that signing prince fielder to some enormous contract isn't cost-effective when we have morse, laroche and marrero to play first base. the first guy can hit .300 with ~30 home runs. the second guy can hit .260 with 25 home runs. the third guy is a question mark, but could be solid as well and is just developing his power now.

bottom line is morse has show the ability to hit nearly as well as  fielder can, for a fraction of the price. it doesn't make sense to sign fielder to $25 mill a year.

spend the money on in-house extensions and explore ways to improve SS and CF.

i want the offense to improve but i see other ways it can happen

[HalfSmokes]

Well, obviously that depends on injuries.  I just can't see adding Prince Fielder really being an improvement for the team if we still don't have a leadoff guy with an OBP over .340 or a two hole guy that doesn't strikeout 150+ times a year. 

every team has injuries, I'm really sick of that excuse. 

[Evolution33]

Here is the problem with the Nationals offense.

Nationals 1-2 hitters have hit .215/.277/.320, NL average .262/.322/.381. Nats 3-6 .262/.336/.438, NL average .266/.337/.437

The Nationals have a league average middle of the order and a down right pathetic top of the order. Prince Fielder doesn't fix the real problem with the offense.

[HalfSmokes]

You guys can sit there and complain about the offense all you want, but there are only  a couple teams that are going to make the playoffs on overpowering offense. The Phillies, Giants, Diamondbacks and Braves are all in the hunt because they pitch well.

right now the giants are on the outside looking in because they can't hit.

The Yankees, Red Sox and Rangers (all likely in) are leading the mlb in runs. Even in the NL, the phillies and brewers are in the top 5 with the diamondbacks and braves at 7 and 8 in runs. The giants are an outlier- Pitching is the most important thing, but scoring runs is a pretty close second if you want to be in the playoffs

[MarquisDeSade]

every team has injuries, I'm really sick of that excuse.  

You must have me confused, I wasn't saying that was an excuse, I was saying that's something to consider.  The paper thin rosters that Rizzo puts together makes that an excuse as does having Matt Stares(!), Alex Cora(!!), and Brian Bixler(!!!) as your bench guys.  Throw in the option-less bullpen and any long term injury screws you hard.  

Evo must have me on ignore but the lack of table setters is going to doom this team.