Nationals vs Padres, Game 3

[MarquisDeSade]

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. He's an above average second baseman at this point.

But does he do the little things?  Does he want to win?

[The Chief]

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. He's an above average second baseman at this point.

I would.  He's still a prospect as far as I'm concerned.  I like the guy and I hope he rises to his potential, but at this point he's just a guy hitting .200/.300/.400 with a handful of really timely dingers.  It's fine to say it's too early to declare anything conclusive about him, but blindly sticking up for him as if he's already the 2B version of RZ is silly.

[MarquisDeSade]

but at this point he's just a guy hitting .200/.300/.400 with a handful of really timely dingers.

Isn't that everybody in the starting line-up minus the "timely" part?

[The Chief]

Isn't that everybody in the starting line-up minus the "timely" part?

That's more or less what I'm getting at.  Linty said that he's not the problem and he's absolutely right.  There are much more obvious issues with the team than Espinosa.  But at the same time, neither has he earned any special distinction as far as I'm concerned.

[Lintyfresh85]

but blindly sticking up for him as if he's already the 2B version of RZ is silly.

Please point me to where I said that.

I was wrong about his wOBA, he is 12th.

He's 8th in WAR. Which means in total, his entire game makes him a Top 10 2B.

I don't classify that as terrible.

Truth is, he's not hitting great... but you package that with his base running and defense... and he's a Top 10 2B. Can you really ask for much more from a rookie?

[MarquisDeSade]

That's more or less what I'm getting at.  Linty said that he's not the problem and he's absolutely right.  There are much more obvious issues with the team than Espinosa.  But at the same time, neither has he earned any special distinction as far as I'm concerned.

At this point if I were in charge, which thank your personal god I'm not, I'd be signing every guy that's been DFA'd since the start of the season and giving them a try out.  I mean, freak, we signed OLIVER freakING PEREZ for gods sake.  Let's quit with this "we're just struggling" horsecrap.  Might as well give the fans a chance to pinch hit in a game.  Hell, I could close out a blow out about as well ol' HRod.

[UMDNats]

Espinosa isn't hitting great but he does work the count, get on base and hit for power in addition to his primary strength, which is his defense.

[The Chief]

Please point me to where I said that.

It's called exaggerating to make a point  Besides, I never said you said it:

but blindly sticking up for him as if he's already the 2B version of RZ is silly.

I was wrong about his wOBA, he is 12th.

He's 8th in WAR. Which means in total, his entire game makes him a Top 10 2B.

I don't classify that as terrible.

"Please point me to where I said that."

I said he's been terrible at the plate, and I stand by that, regardless of his position.  By your own admission, 2B is a pedestrian position, so being 12th out of 30 at a pedestrian position isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of his offensive talents.  .200/.300/.400 is not a good line for ANY batter, except possibly a pinch hitter on this team - Matt Stairs dreams of a .700 OPS.

Truth is, he's not hitting great... but you package that with his base running and defense... and he's a Top 10 2B. Can you really ask for much more from a rookie?

I'm just going to assume this is directed at someone else since my part in this discussion is only concerned with his bat.

[spidernat]

I mean, in 2007, 2008 or 2009 did anyone here ever say "You know, this is total crap.  Everyone can see it's total crap. Why aren't the people in charge being hung by their balls from the 14th Street bridge?  I wasn't here on the board so this is a serious question.

Yes. Some of us (mostly the members of the so called Legion of Doom) have been saying this and expressing anger over this crap for several years. But the Lerner apologists keep insisting that "we're two years away from contending", "trust the plan", "the minors will provide help soon", "it's MLB's fault", "they have tried to improve the club", "too much bad luck", "the umpires are against us", "too many injuries derail our chances", "if they don't spend next season then I'll blame the Lerners" (this one is repeated each offseason), and of course the classic "blame this person and that person" (to deflect criticism away from the Lerners) and its trusted companion "the Lerners are NOT cheap"!

[The Chief]

Espinosa isn't hitting great but he does work the count, get on base and hit for power in addition to his primary strength, which is his defense.

I'm not so sure I'd agree with "gets on base" unless our standard is the rest of the team, but otherwise I completely agree with this.

[houston-nat]

Apparently Yunesky Maya said through an interpreter that in the fifth inning "the heat got to me" and the heat "bothered" him.

Makes sense. As everyone knows, they don't have heat in Cuba.

[MarquisDeSade]

Apparently Yunesky Maya said through an interpreter that in the fifth inning "the heat got to me" and the heat "bothered" him.

Release this freaking clown right now and I'll put the team as the beneficiary on all of my life insurance policies.  I am now actively rooting for that clown to lose.  I hope you like getting lit up like a freaking landing strip el douchebag 'cause the Cardinals are going to have your ass for dinner when your turn comes around jerk.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Release this freaking clown right now and I'll put the team as the beneficiary on all of my life insurance policies.  I am now actively rooting for that clown to lose.  I hope you like getting lit up like a freaking landing strip el douchebag 'cause the Cardinals are going to have your ass for dinner when your turn comes around jerk.

I love angry MDS.

[PatsNats28]

I would.  He's still a prospect as far as I'm concerned.  I like the guy and I hope he rises to his potential, but at this point he's just a guy hitting .200/.300/.400 with a handful of really timely dingers.  It's fine to say it's too early to declare anything conclusive about him, but blindly sticking up for him as if he's already the 2B version of RZ is silly.

Yeah except I'm not calling him the second base version of RZ and I don't think anyone else is either (if they are, then I disagree).

And in response to Marquis de Sade, questioning whether a player wants to win or not is not a fruitful venture since the discussion usually degenerates into an debate of the player's personality traits to which none of us is privy.

[MarquisDeSade]

And in response to Marquis de Sade, questioning whether a player wants to win or not is not a fruitful venture since the discussion usually degenerates into an debate of the player's personality traits to which none of us is privy.

I wasn't saying anything about the guy wanting to win or not I was saying that he's a class A assclown that should be outright released for such a dipcrap comment.  The rest of what you said I agree with, that guy has always rubbed me the wrong way for some reason and if what H-Nat said is true he should have to ride the bus Greyhound back to Syracuse.

[UMDNats]

Maya said the heat bothered him in the 4th and 5th innings.

c'mon son

[UMDNats]

I'm not so sure I'd agree with "gets on base" unless our standard is the rest of the team, but otherwise I completely agree with this.

What I mean is, he draws walks, he just doesn't hit for contact well right now. He's working counts and getting on base, his bat just isn't there yet.

[PANatsFan]

Maya said the heat bothered him in the 4th and 5th innings.

c'mon son

He played in CUBA. He's a whiner. Livan should go all nunchucks on him.

[Lintyfresh85]

He lived his whole life in Cuba. Heat should not be a problem for him.

[The Chief]

Yeah except I'm not calling him the second base version of RZ and I don't think anyone else is either (if they are, then I disagree).

Good grief, is everyone so entrenched in their viewpoints around here that nobody can understand a basic...  um....  er...  whatever the word is

x2 (one for everyone else's English fail, and one for my own )

[The Chief]

What I mean is, he draws walks, he just doesn't hit for contact well right now. He's working counts and getting on base, his bat just isn't there yet.

Gotcha.  In that case I completely agree.

[PANatsFan]

I'm not so sure I'd agree with "gets on base" unless our standard is the rest of the team, but otherwise I completely agree with this.

I don't think he'll ever hit for average, but neither does Mark Reynolds. You can't have too many guys like that on your team, but Espy is a valuable player with a hell of a lot of power potential.

[Lintyfresh85]

I wasn't trying to make an impassioned for Danny. I was just trying to point out that as a rookie... He's the last person I worry about on offense.

[The Chief]

I wasn't trying to make an impassioned for Danny. I was just trying to point out that as a rookie... He's the last person I worry about on offense.

Of course.  I don't believe I've ever argued otherwise.

[PC]

Heat?  Come on!!!

Another winner found by the Rizzo scouting department.