Nationals vs Padres, Game 3

[PC]

It's pinch hitting Riggleman not pinch walking!

[hammondsnats]

Not even the cowboys or phillies deserve this type of losing.

[PC]

I'm done with Ray Knight. There is nobody on MASN who will speak the truth about this team.

[The Chief]

So what? He's got the 8th best wOBA among all second basemen in the game.

He's already a Top 10 2B, regardless of what his average is.

Not sure where you got that but Fangraphs says there are currently 12 2B-men ahead of him in wOBA.  And anyway who cares what he ranks when his wOBA is still a pedestrian .318?  .200 BA and .300 OBP sucks, I don't care what else he's done.  He's got a lot of homeruns but he's been extraordinarily lucky to have a man or two on base for all but one of those.

I'm by no means suggesting that he's a bust, but it seems like you're blindly sticking up for someone who by most measures has been terrible offensively.

[MarquisDeSade]

I'm by no means suggesting that he's a bust, but it seems like you're blindly sticking up for someone who by most measures has been terrible offensively.

In the MDS scoring system Espinosa is current at a 0.000 in PSH - Pimp Strut Hustling.  His leisurely job on the dropped third strike deep sixed him.

[hammondsnats]

Not sure where you got that but Fangraphs says there are currently 12 2B-men ahead of him in wOBA.  And anyway who cares what he ranks when his wOBA is still a pedestrian .318?  .200 BA and .300 OBP sucks, I don't care what else he's done.  He's got a lot of homeruns but he's been extraordinarily lucky to have a man or two on base for all but one of those.

I'm by no means suggesting that he's a bust, but it seems like you're blindly sticking up for someone who by most measures has been terrible offensively.

Yup...I like the potential of both middle IF but they haven't been great this year.

They are going to live and die by them, but it hurts because as a whole this team needs changes.

if moving one of them down is the right move so be it.  I just am hurt by how bad this team is.

[Lintyfresh85]

I'm by no means suggesting that he's a bust, but it seems like you're blindly sticking up for someone who by most measures has been terrible offensively.

I'm saying there's a lot more to complain about on this team than the second basemen. I don't see anyone giving Desmond crap for a .259 OBP, not .259 AVG, but a .259 OBP. Espinosa has a .302 OBP, .043 points higher than Desmond, as in 24 more times on base a year with 600 PA's.

To call Espinosa a bust or a disappointment is to ignore the how pedestrian the second base position is.

[hammondsnats]

willingham just hit a 3run homer, his 9th of the year and 4 rbis on the birds...

But we couldn't afford him anymore...not in the paycheck or OF.

Good going nats

[Mr Clean]

I'm done with Ray Knight. There is nobody on MASN who will speak the truth about this team.

I bet Knight got a talking-to by you know who.

[hammondsnats]

I'm saying there's a lot more to complain about on this team than the second basemen. I don't see anyone giving Desmond crap for a .259 OBP, not .259 AVG, but a .259 OBP. Espinosa has a .302 OBP, .043 points higher than Desmond, as in 24 more times on base a year with 600 PA's.

To call Espinosa a bust or a disappointment is to ignore the how pedestrian the second base position is.

Ummm, dude the chief didn't call him a bust.

And desmond hasn't done his job either.

[Mr Clean]

Josh Willingham just hit a 3 run hr against the O's best pitcher. It just occurred to me that getting rid of him was a salary dump by the Lerners. They have nothing but scorn for the fans IMO.

[Lintyfresh85]

Ummm, dude the chief didn't call him a bust.

But he did say terrible.

[hammondsnats]

But he did say terrible.

So average doesn't mean crap but obp does?

We couldn't keep willingham? 

[MarquisDeSade]

Josh Willingham just hit a 3 run hr against the O's best pitcher. It just occurred to me that getting rid of him was a salary dump by the Lerners.

Don't you remember Evo or someone else mentioning it was a salary dump to get salary space for Grienke?

[Lintyfresh85]

So average doesn't mean crap but obp does?

Exactly.

Would you have a .300 AVG/ .350 OBP guy?

Or a .250/400 guy?

Give me the .400 guy every single time.

[Mr Clean]

Don't you remember Evo or someone else mentioning it was a salary dump to get salary space for Grienke?

No I don't remember that. Sure didn't work out very well.

[MarquisDeSade]

Exactly.

The only metric that should matter is the MDS designed PSH - Pimp Strut Hustling.

[hammondsnats]

Exactly.

Agree to disagree.

I'll no doubt put blame on desmond, but espinosa hasn't been a world bater either dude.

But then again, who has on this club.

We're stuck with what we have.  Blame lerners, front office, coaches, players, teddy...doesn't matter, its the worst baseball franchise.  And its sad, because its a major market.

[UMDNats]

This organization is going to trade Espinosa and hang on to Desmond because Desmond "wants to win."

Also, we're never going to be good.

[Lintyfresh85]

This organization is going to trade Espinosa and hang on to Desmond because Desmond "wants to win."

Also, we're never going to be good.

This, to both.

[hammondsnats]

Is roger bernadina the worst bunter in baseball?

[MarquisDeSade]

its the worst baseball franchise.

Uh, there is Pissburgh with year 20 of losing...

And its sad, because its a major market.

But a major market with a select group of 10-15,000 people desperate for baseball every summer.  Until there are no more suckers desperate for baseball after 30+ years without a team this team will keep on trucking and we'll still be sitting here asking ourselves "why do I give a freak?  No one running the show seems to be getting it."  I mean, in 2007, 2008 or 2009 did anyone here ever say "You know, this is total crap.  Everyone can see it's total crap. Why aren't the people in charge being hung by their balls from the 14th Street bridge?  I wasn't here on the board so this is a serious question.

[PatsNats28]

Not sure where you got that but Fangraphs says there are currently 12 2B-men ahead of him in wOBA.  And anyway who cares what he ranks when his wOBA is still a pedestrian .318?  .200 BA and .300 OBP sucks, I don't care what else he's done.  He's got a lot of homeruns but he's been extraordinarily lucky to have a man or two on base for all but one of those.

I'm by no means suggesting that he's a bust, but it seems like you're blindly sticking up for someone who by most measures has been terrible offensively.

He's also 7th for second basemen in fielding runs.

[The Chief]

But he did say terrible.

He has been.  Just because he's less terrible than half the team or half the other guys at his position doesn't make him less terrible.

Nats OBP from 2B for the last 3 years:

.312
.309
.316

He's also 7th for second basemen in fielding runs.

This is a strictly offensive discussion.

[PatsNats28]

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. He's an above average second baseman at this point.