Author Topic: Plan "B" (Read 131079 times)

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #2175 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:34:51 pm »

I have a question for the folks who think we should sign Dunn and play him at 1B:

What do you plan to do with Johnson? The guy who happens to be our best defensive infielder and possibly our best contact hitter? Bench?

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #2176 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:35:49 pm »

Quote from: Minty Fresh on January 16, 2009, 01:34:51 pm

I have a question for the folks who think we should sign Dunn and play him at 1B:

What do you plan to do with Johnson? The guy who happens to be our best defensive infielder and possibly our best contact hitter? Bench?

Dunn in LF until the inevitable injury, or try to trade NJ and or Willingham

spidernat · « **Reply #2177 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:36:45 pm »

The option is that you go with what we currently have and hope they either stay healthy (

) or that they play their asses off. It seems some people insist that we are going to suck anyway so they are resigned to losing again. I guess that's one way of dealing with it.

ronnynat · « **Reply #2178 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:36:59 pm »

Quote from: Minty Fresh on January 16, 2009, 01:34:51 pm

I have a question for the folks who think we should sign Dunn and play him at 1B:

What do you plan to do with Johnson? The guy who happens to be our best defensive infielder and possibly our best contact hitter? Bench?

Teach Milledge how to play second, have a Willingham/Dukes/Dunn outfield, and keep NJ at first.

Nat of the Living Dead · « **Reply #2179 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:41:18 pm »

Quote from: hammondsnats on January 16, 2009, 01:30:37 pm

It's funny because I don't remember saying any of that

I'm hearing a lot of insults, and not a lot of options here people. How are we going to improve on the position of first base of our 102 loss ballclub? Other than ronnynat and NOTLD, no one has brought up options.

Maybe that silence is your answer, partly. A 102-loss team doesn't have that many options and we've already learned they aren't that attractive to much of anyone. The team is in a rut, we've determined no one player is going to turn this team around, we aren't going to be contending, and we aren't figuring to finish any better than 4th in the NL East if we are lucky.

This is going to be another rough year, no matter what and there is little anyone that isn't suiting up in a Nats jersey can do about it. Right now, those players on the field are really the best and only option we realistically have and we are going to have to live with that and them.

Truly, this is a team of players who hold their own destiny in their hands-- sort of like the Mighty Ducks or Bad News Bears.

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #2180 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:43:23 pm »

Quote from: ronnynat on January 16, 2009, 01:36:59 pm

Teach Milledge how to play second, have a Willingham/Dukes/Dunn outfield, and keep NJ at first.

I know one guy who thinks keeping NJ at first is a horrible idea.

Nat of the Living Dead · « **Reply #2181 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:44:41 pm »

Quote from: spidernat on January 16, 2009, 01:36:45 pm

It seems some people insist that we are going to suck anyway so they are resigned to losing again. I guess that's one way of dealing with it.

You're no different. You've already made the determination if the team doesn't spend money on every schmuck the media tosses out in trade rumors, then this team is doomed to eternal failure. The door swings both ways. You either trust the team or you don't. Either way, there is no train of thought on it that wins out.

The assumption that anyone on this board is "resigned to losing" or "used to losing" is as preposterous as you thinking me wrong of questioning everyone's fandom. It's easy to say, but has no truth behind it.

hammondsnats · « **Reply #2182 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:46:40 pm »

Quote from: Minty Fresh on January 16, 2009, 01:34:51 pm

What do you plan to do with Johnson? The guy who happens to be our best defensive infielder and possibly our best contact hitter? Bench?

It's a good question minty.

I guess it all depends on who we get (if anybody). In a perfect world we pick up a slugger that can play 1B/LF and we can find playing time for everyone. That would give us incredible depth. Again we don't live in a perfect world.

So you either trade him or platoon him. Johnson hasn't stayed healthy since late '06. He has said he doesn't want to be a bench player, I can understand him wanting to be a starter, but maybe giving him a platoon partner he may have a better chance of staying healthy. Just a thought.

hammondsnats · « **Reply #2183 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:47:53 pm »

Quote from: ronnynat on January 16, 2009, 01:36:59 pm

Teach Milledge how to play second, have a Willingham/Dukes/Dunn outfield, and keep NJ at first.

And I like it!

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #2184 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:52:05 pm »

Quote from: hammondsnats on January 16, 2009, 01:46:40 pm

It's a good question minty.

I guess it all depends on who we get (if anybody). In a perfect world we pick up a slugger that can play 1B/LF and we can find playing time for everyone. That would give us incredible depth. Again we don't live in a perfect world.

So you either trade him or platoon him. Johnson hasn't stayed healthy since late '06. He has said he doesn't want to be a bench player, I can understand him wanting to be a starter, but maybe giving him a platoon partner he may have a better chance of staying healthy. Just a thought.

Wouldn't that preclude getting a right-handed hitter since Johnson is a lefty?

hammondsnats · « **Reply #2185 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:58:33 pm »

Quote from: Minty Fresh on January 16, 2009, 01:52:05 pm

Wouldn't that preclude getting a right-handed hitter since Johnson is a lefty?

Ideally, but I see where the team is coming when they say they are looking for a lefty slugger. I wouldn't mind splitting time between Dunn/Johnson/Willingham with the hot hands getting the bulk of the playing time.

Imagine:

SS Guzman
CF Milledge
1B Johnson
LF Dunn
3B Zimmerman
RF Dukes
C Flores
2B Hernandez

that's a solid line-up. With Willingham, Belliard, Harris as your top three guys off the bench.

spidernat · « **Reply #2186 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:58:58 pm »

Quote from: Nat of the LivingDead on January 16, 2009, 01:44:41 pm

You're no different. You've already made the determination if the team doesn't spend money on every schmuck the media tosses out in trade rumors, then this team is doomed to eternal failure. The door swings both ways. You either trust the team or you don't. Either way, there is no train of thought on it that wins out.

Dude you are freaking dense. The idea isn't to spend money on just anyone. Some of you seem obsessed on insisting that I or anyone who thinks we should sign FA talent thinks that it's the money that magically results in wins. If that were the case I would advocate giving Hill, Bergmann, Cabrera, Hernandez and Willingham all 12 million dollars a piece because according to you and others I think that giving a player money will make them beasts. You don't seem to get that there is a correlation between good players and spending money. I don't think we need a bunch of players to improve this team. That should be obvious. We have some pieces already in place. It's time to improve the team even if it's measure by measure to make us a more attractive destination. Some of you insist that we are going to lose anyway and we shouldn't just add, even one player, because we're bound to lose and we need more than one player. So do we wait another year and hope we sign all the needed pieces next year? The year after? Or do we just hope that all our prospect pan out in a few years while we mop the basement of the NL east?

Quote from: Nat of the LivingDead on January 16, 2009, 01:44:41 pm

You either trust the team or you don't.

Trust them for what or to do what? We could've said that last season and we saw how that turned out. You can't sit around doing nothing and expect that trust is going to magically turn this team into a contender.

Quote from: Nat of the LivingDead on January 16, 2009, 01:44:41 pm

The assumption that anyone on this board is "resigned to losing" or "used to losing" is as preposterous as you thinking me wrong of questioning everyone's fandom. It's easy to say, but has no truth behind it.

I'm only going on the fact that people have said here that we're going to lose anyway so there is no need to try to do anything about it while we can. This is the time to try to improve. Once the season starts there is little to nothing you can do.

Why do you keep bringing up the fandom thing? You sound insecure about something dude.

Minty Fresh · « **Reply #2187 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:03:36 pm »

Quote from: hammondsnats on January 16, 2009, 01:58:33 pm

Ideally, but I see where the team is coming when they say they are looking for a lefty slugger. I wouldn't mind splitting time between Dunn/Johnson/Willingham with the hot hands getting the bulk of the playing time.

Imagine:

SS Guzman
CF Milledge
1B Johnson
LF Dunn
3B Zimmerman
RF Dukes
C Flores
2B Hernandez

that's a solid line-up. With Willingham, Belliard, Harris as your top three guys off the bench.

For the most part, I agree with your assessment,but I don't think we traded for Willingham to sit him on the bench. I really think the plans would be to send Dukes to AAA if we sign Dunn until Johnson gets hurt - then Dukes gets called up and either Willingham or Dunn plays 1B (a nightmare).

I just don't think with this roster - even with a Dunn addition - you can justify sitting Willingham or Johnson.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #2188 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:03:52 pm »

Quote from: spidernat on January 16, 2009, 01:58:58 pm

I'm only going on the fact that people have said here that we're going to lose anyway so there is no need to try to do anything about it while we can. This is the time to try to improve. Once the season starts there is little to nothing you can do.

What alot of people are saying is that its not worth trading away our young guys, Milledge, Lannan, Flores for guys like Swisher who will only be a short term upgrade. Gaining 5 wins this year at the expense of 10 the year after isn't worth it to me.

R-Zim#11 · « **Reply #2189 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:06:23 pm »

Quote from: hammondsnats on January 16, 2009, 01:00:30 pm

In terms of leadoff hitters ... is Hudson the answer? Is Hernandez the answer? Is Guzman the answer? Right now we're going in with Guzman. Which honestly is fine by me. I'm surprised we haven't seen a Hernandez vs. Hudson debate thread on here. I don't think it's our biggest need though.

Honestly I'd be more in the camp of signing Hudson -- I don't think Hernandez will be anything more then a utility IF. And honestly, Guzman leading off doesn't thrill me either -- he's a .330 -- .345 OBP guy -- needs to be higher for leadoff man.

Quote from: hammondsnats on January 16, 2009, 01:00:30 pm

As for 1B, I don't want a long-term stopgap, I just want someone who can come in for three years that we can plug in there at first, let him do his thing (hit homers) allowing us to develop our 1st basemen of the future and not force our bench players at other positions to step in and play first. As I said in a perfect world Nick Johnson would be our guy and hit .285 AVG, 30 HR, 110 RBI, .395 OBP, .480 SLG ... but we don't live in a perfect world.

That's a fair assessment. Ideally I'd love for the 2006 NJ to show up. Unfortunately I don't think that is ever going to happen. I am not in the Belliard/Orr/Casto 1b camp. I'd rather see what Leonard Davis can do there in the extremely likely event NJ gets hurt. I am not saying Dunn isn't an option either, just for at a maximum of three years, $10 mil tops. Like NOTLD, I won't cry over it one way or the other.

spidernat · « **Reply #2190 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:07:27 pm »

Quote from: HalfSmokes on January 16, 2009, 02:03:52 pm

What alot of people are saying is that its not worth trading away our young guys, Milledge, Lannan, Flores for guys like Swisher who will only be a short term upgrade. Gaining 5 wins this year at the expense of 10 the year after isn't worth it to me.

I would agree with that wholeheartedly if that were the case but this has not been connected to trades. This has been the case regarding the discussion of acquiring FA talent. Some people say it's not worth it to sign any FA because we're going to lose anyway and it wouldn't do us any good to spend the money to sign them. The talk surrounding that has been over Dunn, Hudson and maybe a couple other pitchers that were around. I doubt anyone thinks we should trade any of the guys you mentioned for Swisher.

spidernat · « **Reply #2191 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:08:20 pm »

Quote from: Minty Fresh on January 16, 2009, 02:03:36 pm

I really think the plans would be to send Dukes to AAA if we sign Dunn until Johnson gets hurt - then Dukes gets called up and either Willingham or Dunn plays 1B (a nightmare).

I've read this a few times on here. Do some of you really feel there is a chance they would send Dukes to AAA?

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #2192 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:09:42 pm »

Quote from: spidernat on January 16, 2009, 02:08:20 pm

I've read this a few times on here. Do some of you really feel there is a chance they would send Dukes to AAA?

yes, look at his numbers. He might benefit from some time in the minors.

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #2193 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:10:12 pm »

Quote from: spidernat on January 16, 2009, 01:58:58 pm

Dude you are freaking dense. The idea isn't to spend money on just anyone. Some of you seem obsessed on insisting that I or anyone who thinks we should sign FA talent thinks that it's the money that magically results in wins. If that were the case I would advocate giving Hill, Bergmann, Cabrera, Hernandez and Willingham all 12 million dollars a piece because according to you and others I think that giving a player money will make them beasts. You don't seem to get that there is a correlation between good players and spending money. I don't think we need a bunch of players to improve this team. That should be obvious. We have some pieces already in place. It's time to improve the team even if it's measure by measure to make us a more attractive destination. Some of you insist that we are going to lose anyway and we shouldn't just add, even one player, because we're bound to lose and we need more than one player. So do we wait another year and hope we sign all the needed pieces next year? The year after? Or do we just hope that all our prospect pan out in a few years while we mop the basement of the NL east?

Trust them for what or to do what? We could've said that last season and we saw how that turned out. You can't sit around doing nothing and expect that trust is going to magically turn this team into a contender.

I'm only going on the fact that people have said here that we're going to lose anyway so there is no need to try to do anything about it while we can. This is the time to try to improve. Once the season starts there is little to nothing you can do.

Why do you keep bringing up the fandom thing? You sound insecure about something dude.

Who's resigned to losing? Certainly not I. I have high hopes for this organization in 2009.

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #2194 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:10:48 pm »

Quote from: spidernat on January 16, 2009, 02:08:20 pm

I've read this a few times on here. Do some of you really feel there is a chance they would send Dukes to AAA?

Nope, not unless it's a rehab assignment. He's better than Milledge anyways.

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #2195 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:12:31 pm »

Quote from: sportsfan882 on January 16, 2009, 02:10:48 pm

Nope, not unless it's a rehab assignment. He's better than Milledge anyways.

how do you figure

http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=4946&playerid2=6441&playerid3=&position=OF&page=2&type=full

Nat of the Living Dead · « **Reply #2196 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:13:23 pm »

Quote from: spidernat on January 16, 2009, 01:58:58 pm

Dude you are freaking dense.

Have you and DCfan being going out on some dates?

Quote

The idea isn't to spend money on just anyone. You don't seem to get that there is a correlation between good players and spending money. I don't think we need a bunch of players to improve this team. That should be obvious. We have some pieces already in place. It's time to improve the team even if it's measure by measure to make us a more attractive destination. Some of you insist that we are going to lose anyway and we shouldn't just add, even one player, because we're bound to lose and we need more than one player. So do we wait another year and hope we sign all the needed pieces next year? The year after? Or do we just hope that all our prospect pan out in a few years while we mop the basement of the NL east?

Then what are you asking the team to spend money on? Short term, sloppy-second answers? Because that is really all that is left.[/quote]

Quote

Trust them for what or to do what? We could've said that last season and we saw how that turned out. You can't sit around doing nothing and expect that trust is going to magically turn this team into a contender.

So sign a bunch of short term crappy players to go with our current signed crappy players. Yeah, that makes sense. We are on our way!

Quote

I'm only going on the fact that people have said here that we're going to lose anyway so there is no need to try to do anything about it while we can.

So you believe this team is really going to win this year? TO EVERYONE: Post if you have truly resigned to losing and are comfortable in losing year after year as Spider here suggests. Post honestly.

Quote

This is the time to try to improve. Once the season starts there is little to nothing you can do.

Hardly. The Off Season isn't where everything happens. Transactions are made all throughout the season, but the only minus to that is the Nats really have nothing to trade. And again, how is signing second and third rate players really going to improve our chances of anything?

Quote

Why do you keep bringing up the fandom thing? You sound insecure about something dude.

Just patting your head to make sure your all right. I'm sure you'll be bringing it up sooner or later.

sportsfan882 · « **Reply #2197 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:14:19 pm »

Quote from: HalfSmokes on January 16, 2009, 02:12:31 pm

how do you figure

http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=4946&playerid2=6441&playerid3=&position=OF&page=2&type=full

exactly. Those graphs show that Dukes is better. There really is no comparison at this point.

cmdterps44 · « **Reply #2198 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:17:22 pm »

People here blow crap out of proportion big time when referring to ones quotes and ideas.

Im down for teaching Milledge to play second in Ronnys vision

Nat of the Living Dead · « **Reply #2199 on:** January 16, 2009, 02:19:16 pm »

Quote from: cmdterps44 on January 16, 2009, 02:17:22 pm

People here blow crap out of proportion big time when referring to ones quotes and ideas.

It's the off season. I tend to treat it like that sort of craziness you would get if you were stranded on a deserted island for a long period of time. They start talking to volleyballs and crap.