Plan "B"

[MrMadison]

If your looking for a "okay i guess the Lerners tried" its hard to determine since we haven't done that.

that's not what I'm looking for.

I'm just saying that I don't blame them for Tex going elsewhere. he obviously had his heart set on New York, and was just waiting for them to make an offer.

I'm not suggesting that we pack it in for the offseason and don't do anything else to try and improve.

[MrMadison]

This is going to go back and forth. If we had the highest offer on the table and were "waiting" for it to be accepted, why not just throw out a larger contract to eaze his decision making.

because bidding against yourself when you have the high bid is stupid.

the Yankees submitted a lesser bid than ours. and Tex took it, because they are the Yankees.

and he took it without bothering to see if he could squeeze more money out of the other teams. if he had done that, the Nationals would have raised their bit to 8/200m. but he didn't do that. he immediately accepted whatever the Yankees were willing to pay him. i suppose that is where all this "waiting for permission" nonsense comes from.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

And trust me, spider and I aren't the only ones unhappy with the current ownership group:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/23/not-according-to-plan/

And he pulls out the article from almost four months ago were people aren't willing to go on record and let us know who they are after they take shots about pens and pencils. Literally, that article has become the Bible for the "Lerners Are Cheap" movement. Too bad it has to be taken with a grain of salt.

[MrMadison]

my official opinion here, is that I want the team to improve, and I don't care how they do it.

and I don't care whether it costs a lot of money, or it costs a little bit of money, or if it costs no money at all.

the results on the field are what matter, not the results in the Lerner's checkbook.

if they need to spend money to improve the team then fine.
if they can improve the team without spending money, then that's fine too.

as long as there is visible improvement on the field, and we field a better team this year than we fielded last year.

it seems to me that a lot of folks are more concerned with how much money the Lerners spend on the team, rather than how much they improve the team. 

[HalfSmokes]

We offered at least 180, probably 200 million to a guy who isn't the best at his position. We were prepared to offer the second largest contract of all time to Mark Teixera. The second largest contract of all time- before free agency talk started this off season, would anyone think he was worth that contract? or anywhere near it?

[HalfSmokes]

This is going to go back and forth. If we had the highest offer on the table and were "waiting" for it to be accepted, why not just throw out a larger contract to eaze his decision making. If he hadnt accepted it then, clearly he wasn't going to later so try to bait him more with a larger sum of money. Who Knows.

Because we are the Nats, he is still going to shop our offer to see if a contender will match it. All we can do is offer more than anyone and hope greed beats winning

[MrMadison]

I say offer Dunn 5 years, 100m.

the forum conversations would be interesting at least.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

So you want me to offer viable fixes yet you already implied that my sage advice is pointless because I don't have access to the Lerner's ears and they don't read this website.

Well considering everything you have said about the matter has been nothing but endless whining...

And you're right, I don't have direct access to the negotiations but neither do you. But I reserve my right to hold my opinion. I don't understand why you take such offense to anyone choosing not to tow the company line but that's your thing so have at it. If hammondsnats and I (and anyone else for that matter) choose to criticize the way they are running this team and to make a stand (as futile as it may be in your eyes) in whatever way we choose then that's our right. You can be the company man all you want. That's your right as well.

What are you making a stand against (and why) when you just admitted you have no idea of the facts yourself? That sounds like someone who just likes to hear themselves talk. But that is your right, if you like.

What about insisting that the "MLB rape" and the imagined media mythology about the Nats is partly responsible for the fact that the team is still such crap? Isn't that also pointless as well as a ridiculous waste of time? I think it's stupid to actually believe that the media is responsible for spreading myths and for having a bias against the Nats (I forgot who the moron is who said that Olney had it in for the Nats because they refused to trade Soriano in '06). 

Do you see me confessing that I am "making a stand" about MLB rape, media, etc.? No, I just used those to show you that the halls aren't as narrow as you think they are.

This is too ridiculous to even comment on but isn't it narrow minded to tell someone how to be a fan of a team? If it isn't then where is the manual teaching me how to be a Nats fan. You obviously have read it so maybe you can pass it on to hammondsnats and me.

Isn't it equally as narrow minded to continue to use the question of personal fandom as your only retort in a discussion because you have nothing else to add? This seems to come up a lot with you. Sounds like to me it is you that are questioning yourself, rather than anyone attacking your "fandom."

Stop being a baby. Everyone on these boards (well, maybe minus one and a half people) are fans of the Nats, no questions asked.

And hammonds, don't back down from your opinions. Don't let anyone here tell you how you should feel or think about your own team.

You guys should go out on a date together and determine which one of you is cheaper on the bill.

 

[/quote]

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I say offer Dunn 5 years, 100m.

the forum conversations would be interesting at least.

Too much.  He shouldn't cost that much, anyway.

I say that they SHOULD trump the hell out of any other offers if teams like the Cubs, Angels, A's, or Dodgers are bidding on him, though.  Offer him at least 10-15 mil more than those kinds of teams.

Btw, the Padres have been sold.  That whole rationale for Adrian Gonzalez possibly being available appears to have been shot.

[MrMadison]

Too much.  He shouldn't cost that much, anyway.

i know it is too much.

but how much he should cost doesn't matter. how much the Lerners spend is what matters. 

[sportsfan882]

We will probably go after these four:
-RP Brandon Lyon
-RP Juan Cruz
-1B Eric Hinske
-2B Orlando Hudson

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I don't think that's really the point of people who want them to spend, but I do totally agree with you that I just want this team to win, and I don't care how.

But spending generally correlates with winning, and examples like the Rays, Marlins, etc. are fairly rare.  The payrolls of playoff teams are generally 40th percentile and higher.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

We will probably go after these four:
-RP Brandon Lyon
-RP Juan Cruz
-1B Eric Hinske
-2B Orlando Hudson

Wow, you really think we won't go after Dunn?  I have to disagree with you there.

I'd love to get Juan Cruz, though.

[MrMadison]

We will probably go after these four:
-RP Brandon Lyon
-RP Juan Cruz
-1B Eric Hinske
-2B Orlando Hudson

you've got an infatuation with Hinske. you've been throwing his name around all off-season.

I'd rather have Bobby Abreu, and let Willingham play 1B. if we can't get Dunn, that is.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Hinske would be somewhat acceptable as a platoon man, but that's it.

[sportsfan882]

Wow, you really think we won't go after Dunn?  I have to disagree with you there.

I'd love to get Juan Cruz, though.

I thought they said Dunn is all but assured to go to Chicago?

[MrMadison]

I thought they said Dunn is all but assured to go to Chicago?

that was Bradley.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

Wow, you really think we won't go after Dunn?  I have to disagree with you there.

I'd love to get Juan Cruz, though.

I think we'll go after Dunn, but I don't even think his best buddy Austin Kearns could bring him to DC at this point.

I said yesterday I don't think we'll get anyone of substance, but for some reason I look at Hudson's name and I get that gut feeling we probably can get him. He is all about the money at this point, winning be damned.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

I thought they said Dunn is all but assured to go to Chicago?

Dodgers are gunning for Dunn.

[sportsfan882]

you've got an infatuation with Hinske. you've been throwing his name around all off-season.

Nope. Not a Hinske fan but I just think that we will realistically have to settle for someone like him.

His numbers speak for themselves anyways. 20 HRs and 21 Doubles in 381 ABs last year.

[hammondsnats]

how many Plan Bs are we going to have?

I'll start a Plan "C" thread if we fail to get Dunn. 

[sportsfan882]

I think we'll go after Dunn, but I don't even think his best buddy Austin Kearns could bring him to DC at this point.

I said yesterday I don't think we'll get anyone of substance, but for some reason I look at Hudson's name and I get that gut feeling we probably can get him. He is all about the money at this point, winning be damned.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think we may have a chance at Hudson. And I remember reading an article a few days ago where the Nats said that they could use a leader like Hudson here and that Hernandez is not guaranteed the 2B job.

Hudson isn't an ideal signing because he is 30 and I don't think he is that good but I could tolerate his signing much more than I could a Dunn signing.

[MrMadison]

random thought.

I wonder what it would really take to get Joe Koshansky from the Rockies.

[tomterp]

Yeah, I'm beginning to think we may have a chance at Hudson. And I remember reading an article a few days ago where the Nats said that they could use a leader like Hudson here and that Hernandez is not guaranteed the 2B job.

Hudson isn't an ideal signing because he is 30 and I don't think he is that good but I could tolerate his signing much more than I could a Dunn signing.

Hudson had a serious wrist injury - those are notorious for causing continued problems for a long time.  I would pass on Hudson unless he would sign cheap, which I doubt.

[hammondsnats]

I can post the Ken Rosenthal report from a while back if I can find it.  And there are plenty other articles regarding the Lerners and their frugal ways of spending.  Just because there are only three or four posters that are standing up and calling out the Lerners on here, doesn't mean we're the minority.  Tons of people are frustrated with the Lerners.  Fans, people in the organization, etc.  Sure injuries, horrible play, inexperience had a lot to do with last year's downfall.  But I think it's fair to say the Lerners had some to do with it (and no I'm not putting all the blame on them).

As I said Dan Snyder catches heat all the time.  A lot of other fans don't like their owner.  Just because I'm calling the Lerners out, doesn't mean I don't like the Nats.  If I didn't care so much, I wouldn't be posting.  I wouldn't be going to games, buying jerseys, etc.  I just don't have much faith in the owners.  That's all.  And that's why I'm glad The Chief started this forum, because this is the best place to have civilized conversations about our Nats.  We have our different views and it's good to see interest in the Nats.  Spidernat or myself we aren't the bad guys ... and I'm not saying you are or the Lerners.  We have our different views of how to improve this club. 

I'm one of the more positive posters on here, aside from this subject.  I have grown more pessimistic in recent months though, because I don't see much room for optimism at the major league level currently.  Sure some of our prospects are blooming, but at the major league level it's worse than expected.  I mean a last place team ... we knew that was going to be a possibility, but a 102 loss season?  That's troubling.  Some serious changes are needed and so far not many have been made.  But I'm not going to quit on the team. 

Let's just meet halfway, you don't have a problem with the owners, I do.  I hope they prove me wrong and improve this club.  Let's just agree to disagree, when in rome, etc.  I said I'm moving on from this subject ... and focusing in on Adam Dunn aka Plan "B".  No more L.A.C. talk from me unless somebody wants to throw me in the ring