Author Topic: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025  (Read 1234 times)

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Offline Air Desmond

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2025, 10:20:30 pm »
These losses will be worth it if it leads to a mass overhaul. Manager, hitting coach, pitching coach all need to go. Resigning Davey and his entire staff last season was a perplexing move that set the team up for failure and regression this season.

Online IanRubbish

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2025, 10:21:28 pm »
These losses will be worth it if it leads to a mass overhaul. Manager, hitting coach, pitching coach all need to go. Resigning Davey and his entire staff last season was a perplexing move that set the team up for failure and regression this season.

Exactly what I've been thinking so technically this is sunshine

Offline Air Desmond

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2025, 09:16:54 pm »
I would assume somebody or multiple people get fired if this rate of losing continues. No way they can just stay the course. This is not a blip on the radar. This has been 6 straight seasons of uncompetitive baseball.

Online IanRubbish

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2025, 12:16:32 am »
Have no fear, the AAA team is 10-28, and its best hitter is 30 yo journeyman catcher Andrew Knizner

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2025, 08:06:15 am »
That picture of Davey after the called "strike" to Crews to end the game kind of looked like Davey has finally had it. He seems disgusted with guys who he can't get to take balls and who get punished by a string of Laz Diaz random strike zone umps when they do. The bad investments in the pitching staff / bullpen have gotten into everyone's heads and they are pressing way too much.

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2025, 08:25:54 am »
I was told trading Juan Soto was going to be great for our future. I think I'd rather have Soto at $700M or whatever and still have a generational talent that will go to the HOF over being terrible for the next 5-7 years and losing Wood, Abrams, Gore etc. anyway. We're absolutely terrible, have a bad manager that has been a bad manager the entire time he's been here save for like 2 months worth of baseball and an improbable run to the World Series. Sure, it probably would've been dumb to pay Soto and not be able to put anything around him but if we're going to suck anyway I'd rather have Soto here shuffling and hitting bombs every other at bat than just being totally irrelevant. To think of what this roster had like 5-6 years ago compared to what we have now and its insanely sad.

Offline SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2025, 08:27:06 am »
That picture of Davey after the called "strike" to Crews to end the game kind of looked like Davey has finally had it. He seems disgusted with guys who he can't get to take balls and who get punished by a string of Laz Diaz random strike zone umps when they do. The bad investments in the pitching staff / bullpen have gotten into everyone's heads and they are pressing way too much.

He brought in the guy that is teaching the young guys how to hit lmao. Coles was awful in Arizona. There was absolutely no reason to bring him in to coach a young roster of hitters. DAVEY DID THIS. Get him out of here.

Offline Dave in Fairfax

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2025, 08:35:13 am »
Both Davey and Rizzo have their flaws, but at the end of the day, both are constrained by an ownership that appears to have no interest in investing in a competitive team, but just wants a reasonably profitable one to likely offset their losses on the commercial real estate side. I'm sure there are deals Rizzo wished he could have made, but were vetoed by the ownership. I'm more critical of Davey since I find his constant fiddling with lineups and resorting to endless platitudes and bromides really annoying.

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2025, 09:11:01 am »
I feel like this is me capitulating and selling in the stock market right at the bottom but I think we're getting to the point where you have to consider if this rebuild is a failure. The team is worse than last year and the clock is ticking on the new core's team control.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2025, 09:18:00 am »
We are feeder fish but with the 20% eCash discount and a decent hot chicken sandwich I'll start going to games in earnest once hockey is officially over (ie, Thursday)

Online Slateman

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2025, 09:28:03 am »
I was told trading Juan Soto was going to be great for our future. I think I'd rather have Soto at $700M or whatever and still have a generational talent that will go to the HOF over being terrible for the next 5-7 years and losing Wood, Abrams, Gore etc. anyway. We're absolutely terrible, have a bad manager that has been a bad manager the entire time he's been here save for like 2 months worth of baseball and an improbable run to the World Series. Sure, it probably would've been dumb to pay Soto and not be able to put anything around him but if we're going to suck anyway I'd rather have Soto here shuffling and hitting bombs every other at bat than just being totally irrelevant. To think of what this roster had like 5-6 years ago compared to what we have now and its insanely sad.
But that was never an option. The Lerners were never going that high. Your options were watching two more seasons of Soto or getting the package we did.

Wood is currently outhitting Soto, BTW

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2025, 09:31:30 am »
He brought in the guy that is teaching the young guys how to hit lmao. Coles was awful in Arizona. There was absolutely no reason to bring him in to coach a young roster of hitters. DAVEY DID THIS. Get him out of here.
no argument that Coles is his doing, as is Hickey and Doo and Gutierrez. Coles is egregious. It's just the other day, when Davey specifically mentioned the can't swing at balls, it sounded like it was a split between them, something that was new. Firing the hitting coach is an easy fix for bad offenses. It would not surprise me to see Coles go before Davey. Maybe that's sunshine and doesn't belong in this thread.  The only thing I've noticed that's new in the past week or so is Davey seems exasperated, too.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2025, 09:33:57 am »
I feel like this is me capitulating and selling in the stock market right at the bottom but I think we're getting to the point where you have to consider if this rebuild is a failure. The team is worse than last year and the clock is ticking on the new core's team control.

SEems even SVrluga may be with you on this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2025/05/14/capitals-hurricanes-stanley-cup-playoffs/
Quote
The Nationals can be examined more thoroughly once they get back home next week, but there are increasingly difficult questions to answer. Not just about these relievers who torch games most nights. Not just about the threadbare major league roster assembled on the cheap. But about when and if more young players will arrive from the minors, with another important draft coming this summer — and a slew of weak drafts in the rearview.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2025, 09:49:48 am »
At a tenth of the cost. Maybe a hundredth (too lazy to do the math)

Wood is currently outhitting Soto, BTW

Offline BigMeech

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2025, 10:24:15 am »
I feel like this is me capitulating and selling in the stock market right at the bottom but I think we're getting to the point where you have to consider if this rebuild is a failure. The team is worse than last year and the clock is ticking on the new core's team control.

Yeah this team is cooked for the foreseeable future.  Part of the reasons why the first rebuild worked is because we lucked into having two generational prospects in Strasburg and Harper back to back and Ted Lerner was willing to spend to supplement the already existing team.  Now that Ted is dead and his doofus son is unwilling to spend money, the team's inability to draft and develop prospects has been laid bare.  It was a problem during the glory days, but Rizzo made up for it by fleecing teams in trades (until he got fleeced himself by the Dodgers lmao).  Outside of no-brainer picks like Strasburg and Harper, was Rendon the only first round success Rizzo has had during his tenure?  I guess Drew Storen was fine for a minute, but his chokes in the postseason makes him a bust to me.

Everyone involved in the top ranks of the organization needs to go.  Rizzo should be fired, Mark Lerner should sell the team if he's that strapped for cash, and I don't understand how Davey and the rest of the coaching staff still have jobs.  Davey has been utter dogcrap his entire tenure outside of a few months in 2019.  Yes, those were a big few months, but that team won in spite of Davey.  Strasburg basically gave up the rest of his career to pitch this team to a World Series.  Scherzer gutted his way through injuries.  2019 was the last year Rendon gave a single solitary crap about playing baseball and had a career year, Soto was young and hungry, etc. 

Online Slateman

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2025, 10:31:26 am »
You fire Coles to send the message about taking walks.  Davey has talked about it all season.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2025, 10:49:04 am »
Giolito and Dunning were a good chunk of the package for Eaton, and Meyer got us Span I think.

Online IanRubbish

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2025, 12:18:59 pm »
I think we're getting to the point where you have to consider if this rebuild is a failure

Way past that point and as I've said many times, there never was a rebuild, just a lot of BS, PR, and lies to put a cover over a salary dump.

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2025, 05:18:06 pm »
Way past that point and as I've said many times, there never was a rebuild, just a lot of BS, PR, and lies to put a cover over a salary dump.

No, I disagree with you here. I think Rizzo legitimately wants to win, I just think he's failing at it right now.

Online IanRubbish

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2025, 05:46:25 pm »
No, I disagree with you here. I think Rizzo legitimately wants to win, I just think he's failing at it right now.

He admitted in the offseason the rebuilt/reboot didn't come from him, it came from ownership who was cutting budgets with no baseball rationale behind it.  A true rebuild would also have sought more value from the Dodgers in its 2nd most important trade, and would not have asked them to cover $15 million of Max deferrals which decreased the baseball value they got in return.


Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2025, 06:48:57 pm »
He admitted in the offseason the rebuilt/reboot didn't come from him, it came from ownership who was cutting budgets with no baseball rationale behind it.  A true rebuild would also have sought more value from the Dodgers in its 2nd most important trade, and would not have asked them to cover $15 million of Max deferrals which decreased the baseball value they got in return.

I think you have to separate the ownership and the front office. Ownership doesn't care about winning, sure, but I don't think the same is true for the front office.

If they really didn't care about trying to win they wouldn't have insisted on the Padres including James Wood in the Soto trade for example.

Offline imref

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2025, 07:24:28 pm »
Crazy that this is the same ownership who went over Rizzo’s head to sign Scherzer.

Online IanRubbish

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2025, 07:46:08 pm »
I think you have to separate the ownership and the front office. Ownership doesn't care about winning, sure, but I don't think the same is true for the front office.

If they really didn't care about trying to win they wouldn't have insisted on the Padres including James Wood in the Soto trade for example.

To my point, he didn't want a "reboot/rebuild" because it wasn't a baseball decision, it was a money one and therefore a salary dump.   Rizzo's problem was thinking he could BS us with the PR cover, and that he's done a miserable job drafting, developing, and developing a strategy to manage this.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2025, 08:53:49 pm »

Ya know...what's sad is we're gonna be looking at 10 straight years of losing come 2029, and still nothing in the system to give us any hope...

Offline raleighnat

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Re: Legion of Doom 2.0 for 2025
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2025, 09:05:21 pm »
To my point, he didn't want a "reboot/rebuild" because it wasn't a baseball decision, it was a money one and therefore a salary dump.   Rizzo's problem was thinking he could BS us with the PR cover, and that he's done a miserable job drafting, developing, and developing a strategy to manage this.

Ownership is a disaster.  There was no reason not to find a few reasonable pieces for the bullpen and a couple of average major leaguers to plug some line up holes.  This team didn’t have to suck. 

With that said, I think Rizzo has done a terrible job with the rebuild.  The drafting has been atrocious and the player development not good.  We need a full housecleaning.  But without spending at middle tier levels there is no chance.