Author Topic: 5 years of Fail: Blame Marc and the In-Laws? Rizzo? Davey? Fans? Manfred? (Read 4107 times)

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #50 on:** July 11, 2024, 12:17:12 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 11, 2024, 11:26:42 am

Rhys Hoskins and Matt Chapman make a world of difference in this lineup.

We have 21 losses this season where we lost by 2 or fewer runs. Kind of feel like getting almost 100 OPS points out of third base and well over a hundred points out of 1B or DH makes a difference there

Chapman is 3.5 bWAR already this season would help. Hoskins is 0.0 bWAR. Less than Gallon he offers nothing when not hitting.

SkinsNatFan21RIP · « **Reply #51 on:** July 11, 2024, 12:40:16 pm »

Quote from: IanRubbish on July 11, 2024, 08:56:08 am

10 years? There were 5 playoff appearances, and there have been 8 winning seasons out of 20 total. Be careful how much of Rizzo's kool-aid you drink.

The draft busts have been epic, Rizzo has no ability to draft and develop, especially in high rounds. The MLB pitchers from the system - Irvin, Herz, and Parker - were all 4th round plus, and the top pitching prospect, Brad Lord, was an 18th rounder. And the performance of those pitchers has a lot to do with Sean Doolittle. Getting excited about players dominating low A is pointless, and the quality of prospects outside the Soto trade is nothing short of miserable for a team on its 5th straight losing season.

Part of the reason for all the losing is the overhang from deferrals, which goes all the way through 2029. We all loved Max, but we also knew that deferring 50% of his salary after his playing time would cause problems, which it has. As was the case with both the original Strasburg contract, as well as the post-opt out one. These are on Mini Me, not Rizzo, but Rizzo gets that like Stan Kasten, his most important job is to be a PR front for cheap, dysfunctional owners.

But the biggest problem with this franchise isn't just bad owners, but gullible fans who have low expectations, tolerate losing, try to explain weak performance with front office spin, and get too excited for prospects in A ball. Look at all the teams with consecutive losing seasons like this, their managers, GM, or both are gone, especially in larger markets. Mini Me would be getting hammered in any other decent sized market. But in DC, the fans are like abused children who constantly express happiness just to have a team, as if a top 10 market somehow shouldn't. So he trots out Rizzo to call his salary dumps "reboots", and suggest that somewhere on the horizon is an 8-10 year championship cycle even when the Soto trade guys will be gone in 3-6 years, the other prospects are busts, and current free agent spending is hampered by deferrals. In NY, SF, LA, Philly, Boston, Houston, Chicago etc this would correctly be labeled a train wreck. In DC, low expectations fans are applauding the team for having the 3rd worst record in the NL, not the worst. It's pathetic.

He built a World Series champ. He built a team that was competitive for 10 years. The team is competitive again quicker than any of us thought and not one of us believed this team was making the playoffs this year. I get you don't like Rizzo and I'm cool with that but you don't have to insult those of us that do like him. I'm just debating my side of it and why I feel he's good at the job. Its not about Kool-Aid drinking or anything. I mean, Christ, I'm a Redskins fan. I know what being terrible is and Rizzo is not terrible. Also, I think its kind of unfair to not give him any credit for the pitchers he acquired while giving all of it to Doolittle. Another guy he dealt for that helped us win a World Series.

Slateman · « **Reply #52 on:** July 11, 2024, 12:43:44 pm »

Quote from: Natsinpwc on July 11, 2024, 12:17:12 pm

Chapman is 3.5 bWAR already this season would help. Hoskins is 0.0 bWAR. Less than Gallon he offers nothing when not hitting.

His .733 OPS is a 127 points higher than Joey Gallo and a 157 points higher than Eddie Rosario. That is a huge improvement over what we've been getting at the 1B/DH slot.

Hoskins 0.0 bWAR is a huge improvement over Rosario's -1.1 bWAR.

imref · « **Reply #53 on:** July 11, 2024, 12:57:41 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 11, 2024, 12:43:44 pm

His .733 OPS is a 127 points higher than Joey Gallo and a 157 points higher than Eddie Rosario. That is a huge improvement over what we've been getting at the 1B/DH slot.

Hoskins 0.0 bWAR is a huge improvement over Rosario's -1.1 bWAR.

or Meneses' -0.4

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #54 on:** July 11, 2024, 01:00:17 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 11, 2024, 12:43:44 pm

His .733 OPS is a 127 points higher than Joey Gallo and a 157 points higher than Eddie Rosario. That is a huge improvement over what we've been getting at the 1B/DH slot.

Hoskins 0.0 bWAR is a huge improvement over Rosario's -1.1 bWAR.

Not a good value for $17 million a year. In any event why would you want them to finish with a few more wins this year when a draft lottery awaits? Focus on the big picture.

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #55 on:** July 11, 2024, 01:02:33 pm »

Quote from: SkinsNatFan21RIP on July 11, 2024, 12:40:16 pm

He built a World Series champ. He built a team that was competitive for 10 years. The team is competitive again quicker than any of us thought and not one of us believed this team was making the playoffs this year. I get you don't like Rizzo and I'm cool with that but you don't have to insult those of us that do like him. I'm just debating my side of it and why I feel he's good at the job. Its not about Kool-Aid drinking or anything. I mean, Christ, I'm a Redskins fan. I know what being terrible is and Rizzo is not terrible. Also, I think its kind of unfair to not give him any credit for the pitchers he acquired while giving all of it to Doolittle. Another guy he dealt for that helped us win a World Series.

Amen.

I’m a bit doubtful of Rizzo going forward but the owners are a bigger concern. Rizzo gets credit for building a winner. Blame for the farm system regressing.

Slateman · « **Reply #56 on:** July 11, 2024, 01:09:56 pm »

Quote from: Natsinpwc on July 11, 2024, 01:00:17 pm

Not a good value for $17 million a year. In any event why would you want them to finish with a few more wins this year when a draft lottery awaits? Focus on the big picture.

Two extra .700+ OPS bats and we are in contention for a WC. Again, over 20 losses have been decided by 2 or fewer runs. We spend < 35 million on two players and we're talking about how much does it take to get FLaherty and push out one of Herz or Corbin.

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #57 on:** July 11, 2024, 01:17:39 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 11, 2024, 01:09:56 pm

Two extra .700+ OPS bats and we are in contention for a WC. Again, over 20 losses have been decided by 2 or fewer runs. We spend < 35 million on two players and we're talking about how much does it take to get FLaherty and push out one of Herz or Corbin.

Why do you want to be in contention for a wild card? How does it help in the long run? Has it helped Miami this year?

Slateman · « **Reply #58 on:** July 11, 2024, 01:20:17 pm »

Quote from: Natsinpwc on July 11, 2024, 01:17:39 pm

Why do you want to be in contention for a wild card? How does it help in the long run? Has it helped Miami this year?

Winning with young players is always good.

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #59 on:** July 11, 2024, 01:23:00 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 11, 2024, 01:20:17 pm

Winning with young players is always good.

How so? Show me some evidence that's true.

Slateman · « **Reply #60 on:** July 11, 2024, 01:30:11 pm »

Quote from: Natsinpwc on July 11, 2024, 01:23:00 pm

How so? Show me some evidence that's true.

Winning is always better than losing. THere's no difference between getting the 4th pick in the draft and the 7th.

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #61 on:** July 11, 2024, 01:54:36 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 11, 2024, 01:30:11 pm

Winning is always better than losing. THere's no difference between getting the 4th pick in the draft and the 7th.

1. Gallo 0.4 bWAR vs. Hoskins 0.0 bWAR. Apparently you don't understand WAR. Or just use it when it supports your views.
2. If they were winning they wouldn't be picking 7th. And especially if they made the wild card.
3. Did losing lots of games in 2022 stop Texas from winning last year? Teams win when they have talent that performs. The learning to win thing is nonsense.
4. There are so many teams in he wild card race this year that the chances are diminished of making it.

Slateman · « **Reply #62 on:** July 11, 2024, 01:59:47 pm »

Quote from: Natsinpwc on July 11, 2024, 01:54:36 pm

1. Gallo 0.4 bWAR vs. Hoskins 0.0 bWAR. Apparently you don't understand WAR. Or just use it when it supports your views.
2. If they were winning they wouldn't be picking 7th. And especially if they made the wild card.
3. Did losing lots of games in 2022 stop Texas from winning last year? Teams win when they have talent that performs. The learning to win thing is nonsense.
4. There are so many teams in he wild card race this year that the chances are diminished of making it.

1. 0.0 bWAR vs -1.1 bWAR. Are you sure you understand what WAR actually is? You know it doesn't actually mean wins, right?
2. Who cares where they are picking if they're in a WC? Again, how is being in the WC hunt bad? The draft is a total crapshoot in baseball.
3. Did it help? It did not.
4. There will always be "so many teams in the wild card race." So I guess we should just never try. Brilliant.

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #63 on:** July 11, 2024, 02:25:33 pm »

Joey Gallo is 0.4 bWAR this year. So he is contributing more to wins than Hoskins.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gallojo01.shtml

Slateman · « **Reply #64 on:** July 11, 2024, 02:27:00 pm »

Hoskins is contributing more than Rosario.

And if you really think Joey Gallo is somehow more of a contributor than Hosksin, I have beachfront property in Nevada you would be interested in

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #65 on:** July 11, 2024, 02:27:18 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 11, 2024, 02:26:32 pm

WAR =/= wins

You didn’t refute the main point. Hoskins is not good and costs $17 million a year. Prefer Yepez.

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #66 on:** July 11, 2024, 02:28:01 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 11, 2024, 02:27:00 pm

Hoskins is contributing more than Rosario.

Rosario with the Nats. Now that he’s in Atlanta….

Slateman · « **Reply #67 on:** July 11, 2024, 02:29:28 pm »

Quote from: Natsinpwc on July 11, 2024, 02:27:18 pm

You didn’t refute the main point. Hoskins is not good and costs $17 million a year. Prefer Yepez.

Hoskins is better than Rosario.

So, for an extra 12 million a year, you could have had 187 more OPS points. But thank goodness that money was saved. It will be great to help fill ... nothing.

Slateman · « **Reply #68 on:** July 11, 2024, 02:30:43 pm »

Quote from: Natsinpwc on July 11, 2024, 02:28:01 pm

Rosario with the Nats. Now that he’s in Atlanta….

And? He's still a crappy hitter in Atlanta. Again, you're quibbling over 12 million dollars and completely ignoring the fact that Hoskins is a much better hitter than Rosario or Gallo.

Natsinpwc · « **Reply #69 on:** July 11, 2024, 02:32:32 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on July 11, 2024, 02:30:43 pm

And? He's still a crappy hitter in Atlanta. Again, you're quibbling over 12 million dollars and completely ignoring the fact that Hoskins is a much better hitter than Rosario or Gallo.

And he’s awful defensively. Not worth $17 million a year.