5 years of Fail: Blame Marc and the In-Laws? Rizzo? Davey? Fans? Manfred?

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Still had Drew Storen as the closer, so no, not the strongest

despite Storen, easily the strongest bullpen. 

[Senatorswin]

despite Storen, easily the strongest bullpen.

Largely because of Storen that year.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Clipp, Stammen, Barrett, a few good lefties. Close to a perfect balance.

[SkinsNatFan21RIP]

False.   He was told to dump salary by Mini Me.  Just like they did when they bought the team in '06, and immediately traded fan favorite Livo for Matt Chico and Garrett Mock.  Stan Kasten spun this as something to do with a rebuild, but it was really just the old man just dumping salary.

This idea that things because turned around in 2012 it will magically happen again because of Rizzo's spin is very misguided.  There are far fewer high ceiling prospects now, Davey and Rizzo have gotten fat and complacent, there's $50 million a year of overhang through '27 from deferrals and Strasburg, and then after '27 Gore is an FA, CJ right after him.  This team will not be better than the Phillies or Braves next year regardless of who gets signed.  At best it might compete with the Mets for 3rd, but I'd bet 2025 will be the 12th 4th or 5th place finish in 21 seasons since the relocation, and the highest amount of 4th or 5th place finishes for any big market team during this period.  But keep drinking the Kool-Aid if it makes you feel better.

Not agreeing with you doesn’t mean I’m drinking the Kool-Aid. It just means that I think the team has a much more positive outlook beyond this season than you do. I mean, I respect your viewpoint and how you feel but just totally crapping on anyone that doesn’t agree with the way you see things is kinda silly.

[Slateman]

In 2014 Rafael Soriano was the primary closer. He had 32 saves. Drew Storen had a monster year in 2014 as the primary setup guy. He had 11 saves, 20 holds, an ERA of 1.12, WHIP 0.976.

Tyler Clippard was on that team also. He had a 2.18 ERA.

They also had Craig Stammen, Ross Detweiler and Blake Treinen with a 2.49 ERA.

That, boys and girls, was a bullpen.

Except Drew Storen was the closer in the playoffs. So, no, not the best team.

2017 had Doolittle at his peak, Ryan Madsen, and Matt Albers. They had 5 all stars, and Rendon was snubbed despite hitting .301/.403/.533 ("do you go to fangraphs at all?"). Scherzer won a Cy Young and we had a healthy Strasburg in the playoffs.

[Senatorswin]

Except Drew Storen was the closer in the playoffs. So, no, not the best team.

2017 had Doolittle at his peak, Ryan Madsen, and Matt Albers. They had 5 all stars, and Rendon was snubbed despite hitting .301/.403/.533 ("do you go to fangraphs at all?"). Scherzer won a Cy Young and we had a healthy Strasburg in the playoffs.

If you read my post you would see I was only talking about the bullpen. In that aspect it's not even close. 2014 was way better. In 2017 Ryan Madsen was only in 20 games and pitched 19.2 innings so why mention him. Sean Doolittle was only in 30 games and pitched 30 innings. Matt Albers had 2 saves. They're not even in the same discussion as 2014's bullpen.

[Slateman]

If you read my post you would see I was only talking about the bullpen. In that aspect it's not even close. 2014 was way better. In 2017 Ryan Madsen was only in 20 games and pitched 19.2 innings so why mention him. Sean Doolittle was only in 30 games and pitched 30 innings. Matt Albers had 2 saves. They're not even in the same discussion as 2014's bullpen.

If Drew Storen is your closer, you're not the best team and you dont have the best bullpen. Closer who chokes is an automatic bad bullpen.

[Senatorswin]

If Drew Storen is your closer, you're not the best team and you dont have the best bullpen. Closer who chokes is an automatic bad bullpen.

That's a ridiculous stance. Drew had 3 blown saves in 2014. He kicked butt all year. With what he did along with his fellow bullpen mates it is laughable to compare that pen to 2017.

[Slateman]

That's a ridiculous stance. Drew had 3 blown saves in 2014. He kicked butt all year. With what he did along with his fellow bullpen mates it is laughable to compare that pen to 2017.

ERA over 8 in the playoffs.

Hard pass on the choking 2014 team with the crap pen

[Senatorswin]

ERA over 8 in the playoffs.

Hard pass on the choking 2014 team with the crap pen

You can lead a man to the facts but you can't make him see them. Never mind.