Reality bites - Break up the 2024 Juggernaut

[zimm_da_kid]

whelp.  we just lost 2/3 to the white sox.  Time to sell on williams, harvey, finnegan, floro, barnes, and winker.  If robles, gallo, meneses, and thomas are showing signs of life at the deadline then trade them too. 

[imref]

to be fair the white sox have been playing better baseball as of late. They had won 6 of 11 coming into this series, including 3 of 4 against Cleveland.

I'm not ready to give up yet, but we need to bring Wood up yesterday.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

those guys should be moved or at least offers on them should be listened to unless and until we find ourselves in contention in mid-July. Then you think.

In the meantime, optimize the roster. Get Wood up n/l/t this month, force Miami's hand on Nunez, throw Robles down the well, bring up Millas as the 26th man, etc....

[welch]

whelp.  we just lost 2/3 to the white sox.  Time to sell on williams, harvey, finnegan, floro, barnes, and winker.  If robles, gallo, meneses, and thomas are showing signs of life at the deadline then trade them too. 

Keep on tanking?

Or keep the players who are useful, especially next season. Drop the no-hopers: Robles, Senzel, Nunez. Welcome Thomas in a couple weeks, then Wood around mid-June, the Cavalli. OF becomes Thomas, Rosario, Wood, Young. Consider bringing up Millas, using him as one of a pool of DHers. With Winker?

If Williams is worth something in July, then trade him. Corbin becomes a long-reliever / spot starter, assuming no team wants him.

[Natsinpwc]

to be fair the white sox have been playing better baseball as of late. They had won 6 of 11 coming into this series, including 3 of 4 against Cleveland.

I'm not ready to give up yet, but we need to bring Wood up yesterday.

I’m not giving up on tanking. 

[varoadking]

Folks went a just a bit overboard on their winning record against other terrible teams. 

This is a 70-ish win team at best, and most of us knew that going into the season.  Can't nag about things when they lose a game...that's what this team was built to do...

They are who we thought they were... 

[NatsAllThe Way]

0 runs in 18 innings against the putrid White Sox.  Wake me up in 3 years.

[IanRubbish]

Folks went a just a bit overboard on their winning record against other terrible teams. 

This is a 70-ish win team at best, and most of us knew that going into the season.  Can't nag about things when they lose a game...that's what this team was built to do...

They are who we thought they were...

The org has the talent and pitching/base stealing strategies to be more competitive.  But they insist on giving out ABs based on every factor other than who is the best player.  Woods getting his service time manipulated, Keiberts gotta contract, Meneses is Daveys favorite, and all the one year guys Mini Me paid and Rizzo thinks he’ll get something at the deadline for.   They are literally tossing this season aside for the sake of internal South Capitol Street politics, and it’s a continuation of the insult fans approach that kicked into high gear with the 2021 salary dumps.

[varoadking]

The org has the talent and pitching/base stealing strategies to be more competitive.  But they insist on giving out ABs based on every factor other than who is the best player.  Woods getting his service time manipulated, Keiberts gotta contract, Meneses is Daveys favorite, and all the one year guys Mini Me paid and Rizzo thinks he’ll get something at the deadline for.   They are literally tossing this season aside for the sake of internal South Capitol Street politics, and it’s a continuation of the insult fans approach that kicked into high gear with the 2021 salary dumps.

Yes...the crew that they insist on plugging in day-in and day-out are nothing more than scrap heap reclamations and represent a giant finger to the fan base...

[Count Walewski]

The org has the talent and pitching/base stealing strategies to be more competitive.  But they insist on giving out ABs based on every factor other than who is the best player.  Woods getting his service time manipulated, Keiberts gotta contract, Meneses is Daveys favorite, and all the one year guys Mini Me paid and Rizzo thinks he’ll get something at the deadline for.   They are literally tossing this season aside for the sake of internal South Capitol Street politics, and it’s a continuation of the insult fans approach that kicked into high gear with the 2021 salary dumps.

I'm not insulted - I think for the most part these are smart decisions. Whether the 2024 Nationals win 70 or 80 games is irrelevant - and in fact it would be better to win 70 games because of draft position. The relevant question is what decisions maximize the chances of the Nationals becoming good again in the near future and having a lengthy window of contention at some point in the late 2020's?

Manipulating the contract time of top prospects and playing guys who might be midyear trade candidates is exactly the right thing to do with that goal in mind. And thanks to the pioneering work of 76'ers fans last decade, most fans now trust the process and realize that. Or at least more did than before.

I'm a White Sox and Nationals fan (these are dark times for me) and the Nationals are in a far stronger position despite the results on the field this week. The Nationals have help coming from the minors very soon and an owner with a willingness to spend on big money FAs. Let's not get distracted by the ins-and-outs of a season whose primary purpose is to create draft capital and stockpile prospects.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Yes...the crew that they insist on plugging in day-in and day-out are nothing more than scrap heap reclamations and represent a giant finger to the fan base...

I've got to think that Davey is just playing the guys he's dealt and that Rizzo is supplying him a roster that fits his vision.

Bill Parcells got annoyed at Kraft back in the 90s because he was not in control of the personnel. Drafting Terry Glenn (a weapon for Bledsoe) instead of Vonnie Holliday (a DE Parcells wanted) was the last straw. He said something to the effect of what use is it being the chef if you can't order the groceries and left for the Jets (with Belichick, Groh, Crennel, and Weis), negotiating their exit during the Super Bowl run in 1996 (lost to Packers).

Davey is no Parcells, but he's managing the roster he's dealt. Going into the off season, it was thought there was a need for lefty hitters after getting nearly no power from the left side other than CJ. It  was thought the Thomas and a bounceback from Meneses would take care of the right side, so they loaded up with Gallo, Winker, and Rosario, and only grabbed Senzel and Yepez (on a NRI) from the right.  As it turns out, with the development of Garcia and early CJ's performance, plus Mr May, it's the right side that is pathetic, like the line up for game 3 in Chicago. Unfortunately, Yepez is off to a rough start in AAA, Kieboom hasn't forced his way back into consideration, and there's no really promising help above Crews, House, and Hassell.

Kieboom may actually be a better option than Meneses at this point. He's getting on base with no power (.276 / .379 / .345). He  just started to play some 1st last weekend, but Gallo is playing there this week as part of his rehab.

[IanRubbish]

and having a lengthy window of contention at some point in the late 2020's?

Nothing they are doing will lead to a lengthy window of contention.  That requires consistently strong drafting and development, including calling players up regardless of service time considerations.   Right now, the farm would be bare if it weren't for the Soto trade.   What they're doing now is praying they'll get lucky by getting talent through trading mid-late career has beens and never weres, and wasting a roster spot on a useless Rule 5.  Unless you've drunk Rizzo's kool-aid, you know they're not getting anything for Winker, Rosario, Gallo, Senzel, etc.   DJ Herz, last year's "prize" return for Candelario has a K/BB under 1 in the minors, with more walks than IP. 

This road trip was some of the worst baseball they've played in a long time.  Poor managerial decisions, bad lineups, bonehead plays that no one was accountable for, and being shutout consecutively against the team that's 14th in the AL in runs given up.  There's no reward in this org for doing well, just personal favorites and cover-your-butt defensiveness.  They'll have a good season or two with this manager and GM when it all comes together, but the culture is too rotten now for longer term success.

[Natsinpwc]

Wake me up mid 2025 to see how things look.

[Smithian]

whelp.  we just lost 2/3 to the white sox.  Time to sell on williams, harvey, finnegan, floro, barnes, and winker.  If robles, gallo, meneses, and thomas are showing signs of life at the deadline then trade them too. 

It's a bad series. They happen. No reason to jump yet.

I am feeling optimistic that the Nats have some nice pieces to deal once and if they give up on the season

[imref]

the Mets made something like 6 moves yesterday including DFA'ng two players, and the Nats......

[Natsinpwc]

the Mets made something like 6 moves yesterday including DFA'ng two players, and the Nats......

Well their payroll is three times the Nats.  So I guess we should have made two moves.  The Mets are in a terrible position. 

[aspenbubba]

0 runs in 18 innings against the putrid White Sox.  Wake me up in 3 years.

Actually 19. Nats didn't score in the 9th in the 6-3 win over Chisox

[welch]

the Mets made something like 6 moves yesterday including DFA'ng two players, and the Nats......

Mets put all their money into it. Scherzer and the rest, $90 million just for a couple of pitchers. Poor Metsies need a gut-rehab rebuild.

[welch]

Flippage did little in 2021 except for very good players. Even then, Schwarber returned Aldo Ramirez, a sore-armed pitcher who had TJS and is still on the IL. Daniel Hudson returned Jordy Barley, who is hitting .100 in AA and who has never hit anywhere, plus Mason Thompson, who was a flop until TJS. Gomes and Harrison got the Nats Seth Shuman, Richard Guash, and Drew Millas. Only Millas is even a a "maybe".

Why expect to flip so many guys? The relievers are handy. Thomas is useful, and will be fine when the OF is Wood, Young, Rosario, and him. Rosario can DH, as well, and maybe with Winker and one of the catchers.

Senzel looks useless. Robles should be gone soon, along with Gallo. Maybe one or all of them can be traded to Miami for the rights to Nunez. If not return Nunez.

The Nats can compete with the players they have now plus Wood and Cavalli. If that's good enough to get close to the third WC, then great. If the junk players like Senzel and Gallo
 and maybe Winker are enough to rent somebody, then even better. I doubt anyone wants them, however. 

[imref]

the most tradeable guys are going to be Weems, Harvey, and Finnegan.  Maybe Thomas. I don't see us getting any value for Senzel, Robles, Gallo, or Winker.

Riley Adams should be traded if this team is going to stick with Ruiz, which I guess they have to do given the contract.

[Senatorswin]

So if they're going to trade useful guys like Harvey and Finnegan who are they looking to get in return? I would assume they want to see what they have in House before trading for a third baseman. They don't have a need at short and probably wouldn't get somebody to replace Garcia with one of the two relievers. Eventually I would think they want to put Morales at first. They don't need any outfield prospects until they find out about the ones they have. Probably not a catcher or a top starter.

So if you're going to trade those guys I would think you'd be getting a lower level prospect that would be placed in Fredericksburg. Now it's 2025, your prospects are prospering but wait, your relievers can't hold a lead.

BTW, A Baltimore radio station was talking about where they could trade for a reliable closer and they said no doubt Harvey and Finnegan will be traded at the deadline.

[imref]

So if they're going to trade useful guys like Harvey and Finnegan who are they looking to get in return? I would assume they want to see what they have in House before trading for a third baseman. They don't have a need at short and probably wouldn't get somebody to replace Garcia with one of the two relievers. Eventually I would think they want to put Morales at first. They don't need any outfield prospects until they find out about the ones they have. Probably not a catcher or a top starter.

So if you're going to trade those guys I would think you'd be getting a lower level prospect that would be placed in Fredericksburg. Now it's 2025, your prospects are prospering but wait, your relievers can't hold a lead.

BTW, A Baltimore radio station was talking about where they could trade for a reliable closer and they said no doubt Harvey and Finnegan will be traded at the deadline.

Finnegan has one more year of control as does Harvey. Unless we're planning on contending in 2025, they aren't useful pieces to keep, especially given age and injury history (for Harvey).  Thomas is also a FA after 2025.

The FAs at the end of this year, according to Spotrac, are Corbin, Gallo, Robles, Rosario, Winker, Williams, Floro, and Jacob Barnes

[Senatorswin]

Finnegan has one more year of control as does Harvey. Unless we're planning on contending in 2025, they aren't useful pieces to keep, especially given age and injury history (for Harvey).  Thomas is also a FA after 2025.

The FAs at the end of this year, according to Spotrac, are Corbin, Gallo, Robles, Rosario, Winker, Williams, Floro, and Jacob Barnes

I would hope they plan on contending for something next year. But again, what useful piece would you get for them? The Orioles with life without Bautista are finding out this year what it's like to lose your closer.

[imref]

it's hard to say what we could get back, but potential longer-term bullpen pieces at a minimum i would think.

[aspenbubba]

No one seems to be addressing Rainey. He is not being used except in mop -up situations and is failing miserably. Does he have any options left? If the Nats DFA him what team would put in a claim and could they send him down rather than keep him on the 26 man. The Nats are now rostering two useless players in Nunez and Rainey.

What happens when Gray comes back from his re-hab? Does he go to the rotation and it becomes a 6 man or is Williams traded? If it isn't a 6 man who goes to the BP?