MacKenzie Gore Vidal Sassoon (2024) - Throw Ur Stuff 4 Strikes!

[nobleisthyname]

On Nats Chat today Zuckerman was saying Gore and the coaching staff believe it's a mechanical issue with him opening up his shoulder while throwing. That's caused him to completely lose the ability to locate his fastball and is leading to the rise in walks.

But the other issue is still very prominent as well, the one he had even when his overall season line looked very good. Gore seems to occupy this horrible awkward middle ground where his stuff isn't quite good enough to get swings and misses, but not quite bad enough for batters to ever do anything other than weakly foul it off. It always drives his pitch count crazy high.

If he can't get the swings and misses you'd almost prefer his stuff to be slightly worse so the opposing hitters would at least put it in play and allow him some quick AB's.

[GataNats]

It’s not his stuff.  His stuff is fantastic.   He needs to start pitching backwards.   Throw the change and sliders early in counts

[JCA-CrystalCity]

It was pretty visible last night that he wasn't throwing the fastball for strikes any more than a random number generator. I do wonder about the slider as well. Slower and less movement over the past month.

[nobleisthyname]

It’s not his stuff.  His stuff is fantastic.   He needs to start pitching backwards.   Throw the change and sliders early in counts

Essentially, become a pitcher and not a thrower.

The other thing Zuckerman called out was Gore's velo was down about 1mph last night. Not a good sign.

Edit: Missed your last comment about velo on the last page, JCA. Not sure what's up with his slider.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

lay off the fastball and maybe smash the slider?

[imref]

Gore reminds me a lot of Corbin as of late in terms of his approach and inability to stay at the edges of the zone.

[IanRubbish]

Gore reminds me a lot of Corbin as of late in terms of his approach and inability to stay at the edges of the zone.

That's the Hickey Shuffle.  Let's just hope Irvin doesn't have another one of these starts today.

[Slateman]

Bring back Senzel. He pitches better when picking fights with his teammates.

[nobleisthyname]

Ranked #50 on Fangraphs' annual top players by trade value list:

The first six players on the list belong in a tier together, and some of the Honorable Mention pitchers could credibly fit here as well. Call it “playoff starters with team control” if you’re looking for a label. Gore fits that bill. His talent has never been in question. Watch him for an inning, and you’ll come away impressed by his upper-90s fastball and wait-where-did-it-go curveball. He even throws a credible slider and changeup to support his two primary offerings. Gore’s strikeout and swinging strike rates have increased every year, and his walk rate has consistently declined. The further removed he gets from his disastrous 2021 control implosion, the more confident I get about his medium-term trajectory. The numbers are starting to back me up; Gore’s 3.14 FIP and 3.78 xFIP sound closer to his true talent level than his 4.20 ERA on the year (a .361 BABIP allowed isn’t helping there).

At this point, I think Gore’s reasonable upside is excellent second banana in a playoff rotation. He’s not quite there yet; even though it’s better than before, his command still abandons him frequently enough that I’d be uncomfortable trying to get bulk innings out of him against dialed-in opponents. He’d be a great fit on a team with two inning-eating starters and a deep bullpen; when he’s on, he can be dominant, but he still has stretches where he can’t find the zone.

There’s always injury risk with pitchers, but Gore is at least under team control for quite a while. He’ll reach free agency after the 2027 season, so a team that traded for him would get three years of production at arbitration salaries. That cushions the blow if he has to miss time; two salary-controlled years of Gore is still a nice prize. As you’ll see in a lot of today’s players, pitching is so unpredictable and yet so necessary that a live arm with three-plus years left under contract makes for a hot commodity.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-trade-value-nos-41-50/

Will be interesting if Abrams or Wood make the list.

[Slateman]

Think we've reached a point where something needs to be done. His ERA has shot up the last month. He's down a tick on his fastball.

Maybe send him down? Maybe skip him in the rotation?

[imref]

Maybe never let him anywhere near Patrick Corbin?

[BigMeech]

I've given up on the guy.  He's cooked.  What a waste of talent.

[Smithian]

Overdue a stint on the Jason Marquis Memorial "I Suck"™ disabled list.

[IanRubbish]

He's gassed and will need to be shut down soon.  He's faced 545 batters, near his all-time high of 582, and his arm is worn out with all those high pitch innings.  In his eight starts since July 1 he's averaged 20.9 pitches per inning, and his ERA has risen from 3.60 to 4.50.  He's also averaged just 4.4 innings per start since then, so he's making the bullpen work harder.  For the season his average of 18.9 P/IP is more than 1 higher than the 2nd highest starter across MLB.

 If this team were making a playoff run it would be a big issue.

[welch]

Send Gore to Harrisburg to find his control, rest if he needs it, and work with pitching coaches.

[IanRubbish]

and work with pitching coaches.

No, no, no!  We need to get a restraining order to keep Jim Hickey as far away from him as possible. 

[welch]

No, no, no!  We need to get a restraining order to keep Jim Hickey as far away from him as possible. 

The Nationals have Doolittle and Hickey; they have a minor league pitching coordinator and a pitching coach at Harrisburg. Rigo Beltran is the pitching coach at Harrisburg, Sam Narron is minor league pitching coordinator, and Joel Hanrahan is minor league rehab pitching coordinator.

[imref]

Are we not going to talk about his performance tonight?

[Senatorswin]

Things from tonight that give hope for next year. Gore and Wood.   

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Are we not going to talk about his performance tonight?

3 good starts in a row. 18 IP, 4 runs (all earned), 19 Ks, 2 BBs, 14 H (2 HR).

He's exceeded last year for IP and starts. If he finishes strong this month, it is a successful year, I/M/O. He had a stretch from his last start in June to 8/17 that was terrible with a high walk rate (5.72 K/9), a relatively low K rate for him (7.49 K/9) and a crushing BABIP (.369) that kept him down around 4.5 IP/GS with a 7.09 ERA. If it really was just a struggle through something, and they've figured it out, then that doesn't change my long term view of him as a near-top of the rotation guy.

[IanRubbish]

then that doesn't change my long term view of him as a near-top of the rotation guy.

He's only here for another three years and while he's improved, he still can't get to strike three as quickly as Herz can, who gets more swings and misses on his fastball and has greater top of the rotation potential.  If Gore's a solid mid-rotation guy through '27 before Boras makes him a Phillie or Angel, that would work fine. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

He's only here for another three years and while he's improved, he still can't get to strike three as quickly as Herz can, who gets more swings and misses on his fastball and has greater top of the rotation potential.  If Gore's a solid mid-rotation guy through '27 before Boras makes him a Phillie or Angel, that would work fine. 

sure. I don't want to coronate anyone "Ace," so I love multiple options. I suspect Gore's going to pitch in any playoff series, whether it is head to head with the other team's top guy or he's pitching the 3rd game (and maybe the 7th) game. I just want 3 or 4 usable guys who can get through a season and pitch in October. A little competition among the lefties isn't a bad thing. I just want to see Gore like we had through his last start in June, which he's somewhat exceeded his past 3 starts.

[Senatorswin]

It shows Rizzo's trading wizardry, as opposed to his draft acumen, when we talk about who is best at the top of the rotation, Herz or Gore.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

It shows Rizzo's trading wizardry, as opposed to his draft acumen, when we talk about who is best at the top of the rotation, Herz or Gore.

Well, there's Parker and Irvin, so the knock on his draft acumen might be stale.

[imref]

Well, there's Parker and Irvin, so the knock on his draft acumen might be stale.

and Young.