The Lerners obssession with deferred money

[nfotiu]

far from the worst.  They are  robbing their future value to put a winner on the field now.  They are consistently competitive while doing this, and won. 

Yeah, if you measure owners by the ratio of what they spend on players vs what they bring in in revenue, then they may well have been the best owners in MLB the last 3 years.

[HattoriHanzo]

What is the deal with this?

Scherzer, Strasburg, and Corbin all signed deals with deferred money.

They offered a ton of deferred money to Harper. He went on to sign for a lower AAV over more years with no deferred money.

They offered Rendon a contract with deferred money. He went on to sign a deal with no deferred money.



Is it simply greed? Do they simply like making money off other people? At this point, it can't be balancing payroll.

The big difference in the contract offers is the amount of deferral years of the pitchers have accepted and everyday position players have rejected is why the pitchers on the team are ok with it. Every pitcher has accepted between 3 and 7 years of waiting to get all of their money. The deferral years in the contract offers that homegrown and other FA received has them waiting anywhere from 15 years or longer. Harper's offer if accepted was to pay him until 2052. That's why I am not upset at him signing with the Phillies.

The Lerners clearly view starting pitchers as being more important in constructing a team. I read somewhere and it might be in the article that's linked in this thread that the deferrals would end once they got their MASN money and since they have not received the money they can't be called liars. I hope that they stop with the deferrals in the offers that has the player collecting checks for ten years or more because they have lost homegrown players which really hurts and have been turned down on other free agents that accepted better offers with no deferred money. So far the players who rejected the nats offers that contained deferred money hasn't really panned out and that could be why fans aren't upset about losing free agents to other teams.

If Rendon continues to put up great numbers or maybe they will lose a playoff series where a clutch hit was needed in the heart of the order and that clutch hit never happened, then maybe the Lerners will regret making an offer that would have made him a nat for life.

I think that the nats will end up trading for a 3rd baseman that put up good numbers in the past and is coming off a cold 2019 season with hopes that a change in scenery can get that player back to putting up solid numbers.

[HalfSmokes]

The big difference in the contract offers is the amount of deferral years of the pitchers have accepted and everyday position players have rejected is why the pitchers on the team are ok with it. Every pitcher has accepted between 3 and 7 years of waiting to get all of their money. The deferral years in the contract offers that homegrown and other FA received has them waiting anywhere from 15 years or longer. Harper's offer if accepted was to pay him until 2052. That's why I am not upset at him signing with the Phillies.

The Lerners clearly view starting pitchers as being more important in constructing a team. I read somewhere and it might be in the article that's linked in this thread that the deferrals would end once they got their MASN money and since they have not received the money they can't be called liars. I hope that they stop with the deferrals in the offers that has the player collecting checks for ten years or more because they have lost homegrown players which really hurts and have been turned down on other free agents that accepted better offers with no deferred money. So far the players who rejected the nats offers that contained deferred money hasn't really panned out and that could be why fans aren't upset about losing free agents to other teams.

If Rendon continues to put up great numbers or maybe they will lose a playoff series where a clutch hit was needed in the heart of the order and that clutch hit never happened, then maybe the Lerners will regret making an offer that would have made him a nat for life.

I think that the nats will end up trading for a 3rd baseman that put up good numbers in the past and is coming off a cold 2019 season with hopes that a change in scenery can get that player back to putting up solid numbers.

how high does the payroll have to go to satisfy you?

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

We're one of the biggest spenders without being one of the biggest revenue teams and just won a World Series.  I wish they gave Rendon what he wanted, but I'm not going to complain. 

[Elvir Ovcina]

There could be a ton of reasons, I’d trust that they didn’t get where they are by not being finically astute. As a fan, they spend way above what we should expect given the market size and the routinely land big free agents - so it’s not like we have anything to complain about

The puzzling part is spending that much to build a team that isn't good enough to win the World Series and then refusing to spend the marginal part on the piece that puts you over the top.  That's essentially the decision they just made.  Yes, it's much more complicated than that, but without Rendon last year's team doesn't just lose in the playoffs, it doesn't make the playoffs. 

We're one of the biggest spenders without being one of the biggest revenue teams and just won a World Series.  I wish they gave Rendon what he wanted, but I'm not going to complain.

At least if the public numbers are correct, they're pretty solidly in the black even with that, though.  There's room to go higher if they really wanted to. 

[HalfSmokes]

The puzzling part is spending that much to build a team that isn't good enough to win the World Series and then refusing to spend the marginal part on the piece that puts you over the top.  That's essentially the decision they just made.  Yes, it's much more complicated than that, but without Rendon last year's team doesn't just lose in the playoffs, it doesn't make the playoffs. 

So you want them to spend $500 million on two players in one offseason?

[bluestreak]

So you want them to spend $500 million on two players in one offseason?

Yes

[Slateman]

Starters may play fewer games, but they have outsize impacts on those games, good starters can cover for a bad offense on their own and bad starters can also singlehandedly  lose games - the same can’t really be said of position players

I would invite you to take a gander at our record this past season when Anthony Rendon was out. We went 4-10. It was bad.

[Slateman]

So you want them to spend $500 million on two players in one offseason?

Why not?

[Elvir Ovcina]

So you want them to spend $500 million on two players in one offseason?

When it's the difference between contending for World Series titles for 5 years and missing the playoffs, then yes.  That's what I don't get here.  Without Rendon, you have a hugely expensive team that probably doesn't have enough hitting to win anything.   

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

I would invite you to take a gander at our record this past season when Anthony Rendon was out. We went 4-10. It was bad.

In those first 50, we were still only 15-21 with him. 

[Slateman]

In those first 50, we were still only 15-21 with him. 

So Rendon almost doubled the winning percentage?

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

So Rendon almost doubled the winning percentage?

You must have barely passed math class.

[nfotiu]

I would invite you to take a gander at our record this past season when Anthony Rendon was out. We went 4-10. It was bad.

We were also missing Turner, Soto, Kendrick, Zimmerman for a lot of those games, and were in the middle of the worst bullpen in history.
I see one 7-1 loss vs the Phillies in that stretch where we had a lineup of
Robles,Difo,Eaton,Suzuki,Dozier,Stevenson,Kieboom and Noll with Adrian Sanchez coming off the bench, and Matt Grace giving up 5 runs.

[Slateman]

You must have barely passed math class.

4-10 is a .285 winning percentage
15-21 is a .416 winning percentage

Pretty significant increase with Rendon.

Meanwhile, the Nats had a .558 winning percentage when Stras wasn't playing.

[bluestreak]

What was the Nat's record when one of the Top 3 pitchers wasn't pitching?

[Slateman]

What was the Nat's record when one of the Top 3 pitchers wasn't pitching?

Not that it really matters because we're comparing Stras and Rendon, but 37-32 (.536)

Also, they had the same record with Stras as they did with Corbin. So we're probably overpaying Stras by 12 million AAV.

Rendon was in consideration for the best player in the National League. Stras wasn't even in the conversation for best player on his team.

[HalfSmokes]

Not that it really matters because we're comparing Stras and Rendon, but 37-32 (.536)

Also, they had the same record with Stras as they did with Corbin. So we're probably overpaying Stras by 12 million AAV.

Rendon was in consideration for the best player in the National League. Stras wasn't even in the conversation for best player on his team.

Sure because the whole post season thing doesn’t matter at all

[catocony]

They're not really robbing the future, as the value of the franchise will rise and the income will rise.  There was a good article on ESPN yesterday discussing how Bruce Sutter, who retired 30 years ago, is still getting paid.  Bobby Bonilla is also a famous case, but the Nats' deferred deals aren't like those.  They basically create an annuity for the player, and the player can decide if the net present value is worth it or not. 

I think their problem is that they try it with all of the large contracts, instead of really feeling out if the player is up for it or not.  Regardless, it's normal for the Rendon and Harpers and Zimmermanns and Desmonds to leave via free agency.  Rendon wanted more money now, and walked. 

On a related note, one less Boras client on the roster isn't a bad thing.  The Nats now have budget for 2-3 key pieces.  Rendon is a good player but he's not a HoF guy, and probably not worth that amount of money.  Sign a solid free agent for 3rd base and sign some decent relievers who aren't retreads or high-risk options. 

[hohoho]

Here is what Thomas Pollyanna Boswell says:
"The Nats are now $38.6 million below the tax threshold...The Nats could probably fill voids with 2019 Nats — Ryan Zimmerman, Matt Adams, Hudson and either Asdrúbal Cabrera or Brian Dozier — for $20 million to $25 million. Then they would still have $15 million to upgrade their historically weak bullpen. Now that makes sense."
No, it doesn't make sense. Who would trade Rendon for those four plus $10M-$15M? Why not take a small hit on the cap to get some relievers if it could put you over the top to retain your championship?
The Lerners refuse to bust the cap, which is ridiculous, and in any case, not the fans' problem.
Also, the Nats seem to be betting on Kieboom, but he is likely to go Kaboom, and I don't mean in a good way. By passing on their best player, they are admitting that they don't expect to vie for championships for long because it's too expensive as well. If you want to consistently compete with the big boys you have to spend big boy money.

[Slateman]

Sure because the whole post season thing doesn’t matter at all

Sure, because Rendon was chump change in the postseason.

[HalfSmokes]

Sure, because Rendon was chump change in the postseason.

Not that it really matters because we're comparing Stras and Rendon, but 37-32 (.536)

Also, they had the same record with Stras as they did with Corbin. So we're probably overpaying Stras by 12 million AAV.

Rendon was in consideration for the best player in the National League. Stras wasn't even in the conversation for best player on his team.

so you're saying Rendon was as valuable as Strasburg in the post season? Or are you saying Corbin was?

[Slateman]

so you're saying Rendon was as valuable as Strasburg in the post season? Or are you saying Corbin was?

Rendon was just as valuable. We dont get out of the NLDS if you replace him with Josh Donaldson and his .148 average.

[HalfSmokes]

Rendon was just as valuable. We dont get out of the NLDS if you replace him with Josh Donaldson and his .148 average.

and without Strasburg, they aren't making it to the NLDS

[Slateman]

and without Strasburg, they aren't making it to the NLDS

Rendon scored the winning run in that game.