PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)

[Ray D]

Every game which goes by seems to provide further reason why Martinez should be dismissed.

I'm finally at that point, as I posted in some other thread (I can't even remember which one as this seems to come up in many threads).  That Turner fiasco doesn't happen when you have a manager in control of the team.

[Slateman]

I'm finally at that point, as I posted in some other thread (I can't even remember which one as this seems to come up in many threads).  That Turner fiasco doesn't happen when you have a manager in control of the team.

Really? Bryce Harper has been dogging it for 4 years. Numerous times in the past this group of players has shown a laissez faire attitude regarding effort and mental discipline. Baserunning is a prime example. There are posts in the Dusty hey days about the terrible baserunning. Did we forget Dusty insisting on playing Jayson Werth, a terrible Bryce Harper, and Danny Espinosa?

[Natsinpwc]

Really? Bryce Harper has been dogging it for 4 years. Numerous times in the past this group of players has shown a laissez faire attitude regarding effort and mental discipline. Baserunning is a prime example. There are posts in the Dusty hey days about the terrible baserunning. Did we forget Dusty insisting on playing Jayson Werth, a terrible Bryce Harper, and Danny Espinosa?

Yep. They have forgotten all that.

I think like you and others have said they have been getting away with stuff for years. Talent and a bad division allowed them to get away with it.

Turner is Gilligan (the little buddy) to Harper's the Skipper. Emulates him. Not a good role model. Didn't see the Rendon laughing last night as I had turned the game off. His stuff does not bother me as much as it does others but that's also a bad look. Once the season is over and Martinez is done you will see all the stories come out. Not a team of winners. Need a real strong manager for this lot even if Harper is gone.

[Ray D]

Really? Bryce Harper has been dogging it for 4 years. Numerous times in the past this group of players has shown a laissez faire attitude regarding effort and mental discipline. Baserunning is a prime example. There are posts in the Dusty hey days about the terrible baserunning. Did we forget Dusty insisting on playing Jayson Werth, a terrible Bryce Harper, and Danny Espinosa?

Dusty made some questionable decisions and as we all know baserunning wasn't his strength.  This is about the team respecting the manager.  They respected Dusty.  They apparently do not respect Dave.

[rileyn]

At least Bryce makes a cursory effort to trot to 1st base.  Trea didn't even do that.  Instead, he slammed his helmet and bat down, took off his batting gloves and gave up.  He came across like much more of a spoiled brat that Bryce ever has.  By far.

[Natsinpwc]

At least Bryce makes a cursory effort to trot to 1st base.  Trea didn't even do that.  Instead, he slammed his helmet and bat down, took off his batting gloves and gave up.  He came across like much more of a spoiled brat that Bryce ever has.  By far.

Pupil passes the teacher. Bring on Paps for some chokings.

[Natsinpwc]

Dusty made some questionable decisions and as we all know baserunning wasn't his strength.  This is about the team respecting the manager.  They respected Dusty.  They apparently do not respect Dave.

Respect is one thing but why can't they hit or pitch?  Pressure is on and they are reacting just like they have in other pressure situations. Division race in 2015 and playoffs.

[Greg_SRT]

Respect is one thing but why can't they hit or pitch?  Pressure is on and they are reacting just like they have in other pressure situations. Division race in 2015 and playoffs.

That’s the other coaches.

Nothing is on the players.

 

[nfotiu]

I keep watching Trea's tantrum yesterday.  It sure seemed weird.  I can't figure out what he was thinking or what would cause him to go instant tantrum there.   He had given up on it before he even turned around and saw the pitcher had it.   Regardless, Turner doesn't seem like he's in a good place right now, and should sit.

I don't know that how hard guys run through first is a good way to judge a manager's respect of a team.   A baseball season is a long 162 games, and the good managers are the ones that manage and control that season properly.   I don't buy that a baseball manager's job is to crack the whip and making sure everyone is going full throttle all the time.   Baseball isn't football or hockey.  This team plays well under guys like Dusty who kept players loose and focused.   He seemed to have a good handle on not letting guys get to down when things are going badly or too high when they're going well.   He knew when guys needed to push themselves to work on something, and when they needed to step back.  He used rest days well. 

Guys knew where they were going to hit in the order each day under Dusty, and I think that's a big deal.   Guys get comfortable in their spot in the batting order and you hear that mentioned a lot.   I don't see that the benefits of constantly changing the order outweigh the downside, even if the downside is only psychological.  Sure, change the order if it isn't working, but you have to give the order more than 1 day in a row to see if it's working.

[Natsinpwc]

That’s the other coaches.

Nothing is on the players.

 

I thought it was the fans' fault?

[Slateman]

Dusty made some questionable decisions and as we all know baserunning wasn't his strength.  This is about the team respecting the manager.  They respected Dusty.  They apparently do not respect Dave.

Which ones don't "respect" Martinez?

Trea Turner not running isnt not respecting Martinez, it's not respecting his teammates.

Same group of players. Same poor effort and mental awareness.

[Greg_SRT]

I thought it was the fans' fault?

More than a few must have over cooked their steaks

[Slateman]

You people have money for steak!?!

[Natsinpwc]

Which ones don't "respect" Martinez?

Trea Turner not running isnt not respecting Martinez, it's not respecting his teammates.

Same group of players. Same poor effort and mental awareness.

The revolving door on managers has allowed them to not take any accountability for their own poor play. In 2015 they were able to blame it on Williams. In the last 2 playoffs it was Dusty. And now it's Martinez.

Roll next year with Robles and Soto as your young energy guys. Keep Taylor. Soto can play some 1B. Hope Eaton recovers some more. New Natitude for Trea. Oh. And another starting pitcher or two and a catcher. Trade Murphy and Herrera and Madson to get some help for the system. Thy probably won't get much but sometimes the long shots pan out.

[Baseball is Life]

Turner will be be benched today for not running out a bunt.

http://www.masnsports.com/byron-kerr/2018/07/turner-and-zimmerman-explain-misplays-in-6-1-loss-to-brewers.html

Martinez did not like seeing Turner not try to run to first base on the play.

“I actually thought the ball hit him,” Martinez said. “I thought it hit him in the hand or something. I was trying to scream inside to see what they saw and they said he just bunted the ball. So I was like, why would he walk up the field?”

Martinez said Turner is likely to be benched for Tuesday’s game because of that play.

“In that moment, we are trying to win a ball game,” Martinez said. “It’s a good chance he won’t play tomorrow.

[Greg_SRT]

They are 49 and 50.

In those 50 losses, over 74% have come when they failed to score more than 3. 52% have come when they failed to score more than 2.

They have failed this year because the middle of the order hasn't produced.

That's why the lineup keeps changing.

Adams should start over Zimm. I know they want to get Zimm going, but being 49 and 50 leaves little room for trial.

The roster is set except for Catcher. And you need to add someone to the lineup that will be in the middle of the order.

The only answer is JT.

So you either ride with the team or you get JT. Ramos even healthy doesn't help here.

The middle of this order needs to start producing. If they don't, it's no playoffs.

[Slateman]

The revolving door on managers has allowed them to not take any accountability for their own poor play. In 2015 they were able to blame it on Williams. In the last 2 playoffs it was Dusty. And now it's Martinez.

Roll next year with Robles and Soto as your young energy guys. Keep Taylor. Soto can play some 1B. Hope Eaton recovers some more. New Natitude for Trea. Oh. And another starting pitcher or two and a catcher. Trade Murphy and Herrera and Madson to get some help for the system. Thy probably won't get much but sometimes the long shots pan out.

What was the excuse in 2013 and 2014? Exactly. Anytime this core group of players has faced any adversity, they've wilted like snowflakes. And, honestly, this is a direct result of the Strasburg Shutdown. Rizzo called up Bryce because he needed an impact bat. He made the trade for Gio. He went all in and at the last minute, had the hubris to say that they'll be back.

Trea has learned too much from Bryce Harper and Ryan Zimmerman. Deal him now, his value will never be greater. The desire for shortstops is really high right now. We happen to have three players that can play that position. Trade one. In this case, trade Turner.

[UMDNats]

Tonight was the last straw, folks. Never seen anything like it. Those 100 loss teams had some clowns, but never guys that flat out quit.

This is...not true.

[Greg_SRT]

What was the excuse in 2013 and 2014? Exactly. Anytime this core group of players has faced any adversity, they've wilted like snowflakes. And, honestly, this is a direct result of the Strasburg Shutdown. Rizzo called up Bryce because he needed an impact bat. He made the trade for Gio. He went all in and at the last minute, had the hubris to say that they'll be back.

Trea has learned too much from Bryce Harper and Ryan Zimmerman. Deal him now, his value will never be greater. The desire for shortstops is really high right now. We happen to have three players that can play that position. Trade one. In this case, trade Turner.

Agreed. The Trea attitude started before Dusty left.

[Natsinpwc]

What was the excuse in 2013 and 2014? Exactly. Anytime this core group of players has faced any adversity, they've wilted like snowflakes. And, honestly, this is a direct result of the Strasburg Shutdown. Rizzo called up Bryce because he needed an impact bat. He made the trade for Gio. He went all in and at the last minute, had the hubris to say that they'll be back.

Trea has learned too much from Bryce Harper and Ryan Zimmerman. Deal him now, his value will never be greater. The desire for shortstops is really high right now. We happen to have three players that can play that position. Trade one. In this case, trade Turner.

Don't agree with the shutdown as a cause but agree with the other thoughts. I would put Turner in a trade for a good pitcher. Kieboom will be ready by 2020.

[catocony]

Trea complains way more than he should about balls and strikes.  I suspect he has a solid reputation among umps for being petulant, which will do poorly for him.  I like Trea, but he has to have a lot more focus and stop throwing hissy fits whenever he strikes out. 

What was funny last night was even the Brewers weren't sure for a second what was going on.  Him not running confounding the entire infield.

[Slateman]

Don't agree with the shutdown as a cause but agree with the other thoughts. I would put Turner in a trade for a good pitcher. Kieboom will be ready by 2020.

We could have included him in the Sale deal

Short of trading him to the Mets, you don't have a deal in place that brings you a known front of the rotation starter.

[PowerBoater69]

Trea complains way more than he should about balls and strikes.  I suspect he has a solid reputation among umps for being petulant, which will do poorly for him.  I like Trea, but he has to have a lot more focus and stop throwing hissy fits whenever he strikes out. 

What was funny last night was even the Brewers weren't sure for a second what was going on.  Him not running confounding the entire infield.

The whole team complains too much.

Last night was a strange play, Turner should have run, and he should be benched, but it's funny that Martinez benches a guy for doing something out of character and let's Harper routinely loaf.

[Slateman]

The whole team complains too much.

Last night was a strange play, Turner should have run, and he should be benched, but it's funny that Martinez benches a guy for doing something out of character and let's Harper routinely loaf.

You know, if he had simply stood there, saying it hit the plate, I'd have been okay with that. But to just throw his helmet and bat down seemed so .... immature. Defeated. I know he's slumping, but come on man.

[UMDNats]

The whole team complains too much.

Last night was a strange play, Turner should have run, and he should be benched, but it's funny that Martinez benches a guy for doing something out of character and let's Harper routinely loaf.

shocking news - manager treats superstar player different than other player!