Author Topic: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)  (Read 57277 times)

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Offline welch

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1125 on: July 01, 2018, 07:37:44 pm »
Nope. Clearly it's the coaches.

You see, if dave would have removed Gio in the fifth then we would have obviously won todays game.

Forget the message that a move like that would have sent to the clubhouse. How...
1. Management doesn't trust Gio to throw 5 innings or to work out of a jam. That he is weak.
2. Management doesn't believe the offense will score again for a minimum of 4 innings.
3. The Pitching staff as a whole has no leash. Management expects and the team needs near perfection from the staff to be in a winning situation.

Apparently it's ok to wear down the bullpen like the Phillies did. Don't think about how the Phillies have a day off tomorrow and the Nationals have to play 14 straight after this game.

It's best that we as Nationals fans say things that make no sense. For example say "dave is an idiot for taking out a pitcher under 80 pitches". Then immediately say "dave is an idiot for having pitchers throw so many pitches.

Nearly everyone here has learned that Gio is ready to walk the bases loaded in any inning of every start. In his last three starts, Gio has gone four, one, and five innings, giving up two, six, and three runs. It was a blunder to have no one warming in the 5th inning.

dave's Nats started with a sloppy April, outplayed by the Mets and everyone else. They recovered in May, got to first place, and then collapsed.

The sloppy April suggests that dave had the team coasting through Spring Training. Not ready to play, not sharp.  Would Dusty have had the Nats prepared? No telling, and, yes, the Braves and Phillies are stronger. But Dusty's teams seem to have been prepared.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1126 on: July 01, 2018, 07:46:02 pm »


Forget the message that a move like that would have sent to the clubhouse. How...
1. Management doesn't trust Gio to throw 5 innings or to work out of a jam. That he is weak.
2. Management doesn't believe the offense will score again for a minimum of 4 innings.
3. The Pitching staff as a whole has no leash. Management expects and the team needs near perfection from the staff to be in a winning situation.




And 1 and 2 would be well justified.

Offline tomwvr

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1127 on: July 01, 2018, 08:02:24 pm »
42-40.

6 gb.

I hope I wake up to the news that Dave Martinez has been fired.

That would be a good thing

Offline Optics

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1128 on: July 01, 2018, 08:04:00 pm »
Rizzo hired Martinez not necessarily for this year but for the next few years, the post Harper era.

Look at the Astros and AJ Hinch. In 2016, the year before they won it all, they had a very mediocre season.

Joe Jirardi's Yankees finished 3rd in 2008 before winning it all the next year.

Sometimes it takes new managers a year or two to figure things out and grow into the job.

Offline LoveAngelos

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1129 on: July 01, 2018, 08:32:36 pm »
Firing Long would be a useless and futile gesture. It takes a coach months to get to know the players. The screw up was firing Schu. Only thing that can be done now is to let Long keep working with the guys and for the FO to give the coaching staff the authority to bench guys who don't follow the program. No chance that happens, the Nats have the same core issue as the Redskins, star players have more pull with ownership than the coaching staff does.
[/quote
















Bingo!Double bingo!!!!
Anyone who does not understand  or get the Redskins analogy doesn't know what leadership means.....say like Snyder or the Lerner's or Dave Martinez.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1130 on: July 01, 2018, 08:49:40 pm »
Nearly everyone here has learned that Gio is ready to walk the bases loaded in any inning of every start. In his last three starts, Gio has gone four, one, and five innings, giving up two, six, and three runs. It was a blunder to have no one warming in the 5th inning.

dave's Nats started with a sloppy April, outplayed by the Mets and everyone else. They recovered in May, got to first place, and then collapsed.

The sloppy April suggests that dave had the team coasting through Spring Training. Not ready to play, not sharp.  Would Dusty have had the Nats prepared? No telling, and, yes, the Braves and Phillies are stronger. But Dusty's teams seem to have been prepared.

First, someone did get up in the fifth. He didn't enter the game, but he was warming.

dave's team has not been sloppy. Can't say that because Pitching and Defense hasn't been. And they get hits, just can't bring RISP home. Far from an entirely sloppy team.

Here is the way to tell if you theory or thoughts on issues are legit. Check what the analyst say. Ray Knight, reporters, players, coaches.

If no one outside of these boards or random blog posts think it, it ain't legit.

No one with baseball knowledge would think removing Gio before 5 would be a smart thing to do unless he's given up more than 3. Why? Because A) you can't lose a game in the fifth B) you can't run your bullpen into the ground.

Look at the player quotes, they tell you the issue is not scoring enough runs. And the issue is the lack of runs scored.

There is only on team so far this year that averages less than 3 runs allowed a game... Houston. Everyone else allows at least 3 runs a game. So when your pitching staff over 9 allow only 3 runs and you lose, it's because you didn't score enough runs.

Anyone who has some baseball knowledge won't agree with the idea that you remove a starting pitcher in the regular season before 5 if you haven't given up more than 3. Unless he has an injury.

The issue is offense. That's why June has been so bad. been shut out 7 times.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1131 on: July 01, 2018, 08:50:36 pm »


And 1 and 2 would be well justified.

Sure, but you don't do that to your players. That's a good way to lose your club house.

Offline Expos

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1132 on: July 01, 2018, 11:26:03 pm »
That is something that has been said about many different iterations of this team over the past few years and over the tenures of multiple managers. At some point, doesn't the blame have to shift from the managers to the veteran guys like Zimm, Harper, Rendon, Stras, and Gio who have been around for a long time and thus are probably responsible for the locker room attitude?

There is no doubt in my mind it's the players.

They have never had to work for a playoff appearance because we have been in such a weak division and we are appointed WS Champs every offseason. Our guys believe the hype.

Offline skippy1999

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1133 on: July 02, 2018, 12:00:10 am »
That is something that has been said about many different iterations of this team over the past few years and over the tenures of multiple managers. At some point, doesn't the blame have to shift from the managers to the veteran guys like Zimm, Harper, Rendon, Stras, and Gio who have been around for a long time and thus are probably responsible for the locker room attitude?

Absolutely.

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1134 on: July 02, 2018, 10:46:50 am »
I went ahead and look up some stats. I used Teamrankings.com for anyone wondering.

The Nationals are 9th best in Team ERA for 2018 with 3.67. They were 2nd best at June 1st with 3.24.

They are 21st in runs scored per game with 4.24 for 2018. They were 13th at June 1st with 4.36.

They are 22nd in hits per game for 2018 at 8.05. They were 21st at June 1st with... 8.09.

Team ERA has slightly increased but not enough to throw us out of the top 1/3 of MLB. But they were never top 1/3 in the league in runs scored, and it's only got worse. But the amount of hits they get per game has been largely unchanged, though never good from the start.

dave has made one blunder. He thought the UMP announced a hitter when he clearly didn't. And that was no where near the level of Dusty's NLDS Stras Status blunder.

You don't get 6 years in the Major with a career average of say... .280 and suddenly with a new hitting coach or manager hit .220 and not take the blame.

This team for whatever collective reason can't hit when they need to.

16 loses in the month of June by my count. 7 shutouts. 13 of 16 loses have come when they failed to score more than 3 runs in a game.

Over 9 innings if your offense scores 4 runs you had a good day. If your pitching staff allows under 4 over 9, they had a good day. We haven't had many good days because of the offense.

Imagine how many loses we would of had in June if Soto didn't carry the Offense. Offensively, the only reason we won 2 from the Yankees is because of Soto.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1135 on: July 02, 2018, 11:44:15 am »
I went ahead and look up some stats. I used Teamrankings.com for anyone wondering.

The Nationals are 9th best in Team ERA for 2018 with 3.67. They were 2nd best at June 1st with 3.24.

They are 21st in runs scored per game with 4.24 for 2018. They were 13th at June 1st with 4.36.

They are 22nd in hits per game for 2018 at 8.05. They were 21st at June 1st with... 8.09.

Team ERA has slightly increased but not enough to throw us out of the top 1/3 of MLB. But they were never top 1/3 in the league in runs scored, and it's only got worse. But the amount of hits they get per game has been largely unchanged, though never good from the start.

dave has made one blunder. He thought the UMP announced a hitter when he clearly didn't. And that was no where near the level of Dusty's NLDS Stras Status blunder.

You don't get 6 years in the Major with a career average of say... .280 and suddenly with a new hitting coach or manager hit .220 and not take the blame.

This team for whatever collective reason can't hit when they need to.

16 loses in the month of June by my count. 7 shutouts. 13 of 16 loses have come when they failed to score more than 3 runs in a game.

Over 9 innings if your offense scores 4 runs you had a good day. If your pitching staff allows under 4 over 9, they had a good day. We haven't had many good days because of the offense.

Imagine how many loses we would of had in June if Soto didn't carry the Offense. Offensively, the only reason we won 2 from the Yankees is because of Soto.
And I'm sitting here wondering what the freak any of this has to do with Davey Martinez? Or even the coaching staff?

Offline Greg_SRT

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1136 on: July 02, 2018, 11:53:55 am »
And I'm sitting here wondering what the freak any of this has to do with Davey Martinez? Or even the coaching staff?

Exactly. None of it does.

It's a snow ball effect for the players.

The guys in the lineup who are the table setters have gotten the job done and got one base. Not exactly at the level they need to but also not to the point that it makes the team lose. The table cleaners haven't. So the table setters feel increased pressure to do more than simply get on base. The Pitchers were getting their job done. They now feel that they have to do more. Their margin of error has shrunk to unrealistic levels.

Everyone is now tighter because of it. Everyone now feels the pressure.

It took until June, but they finally feel this pressure because the guys who were supposed to be the RBI guys haven't got it done.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1137 on: July 02, 2018, 12:53:23 pm »
And I'm sitting here wondering what the freak any of this has to do with Davey Martinez? Or even the coaching staff?

Nothing at all, why even have a manager, just use the same software for RBI 2018. Let the players determine when they want to play or sit out.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1138 on: July 02, 2018, 01:00:04 pm »
Nothing at all, why even have a manager, just use the same software for RBI 2018. Let the players determine when they want to play or sit out.

Rizzo - *hits random sort*

WNFF - Why the freak is Anthony Rendon pitching?

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1139 on: July 02, 2018, 10:44:17 pm »
I want the Nats to win and I still think they will win the division. But this teams deserves every ounce of the angst now on it because of how they treated Dusty.
The question now is whether repaying the karmic debt will include not making the playoffs.

Offline skippy1999

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1140 on: July 02, 2018, 10:45:18 pm »
I want the Nats to win and I still think they will win the division. But this teams deserves every ounce of the angst now on it because of how they treated Dusty.
The question now is whether repaying the karmic debt will include not making the playoffs.

Oh give it a rest already :roll:

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1141 on: July 02, 2018, 10:46:18 pm »
Oh give it a rest already :roll:
I forget. Did they play poorly in 2013 and 2015 due to some bad karma?

Offline Air Desmond

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1142 on: July 02, 2018, 10:49:01 pm »
42-41.

7 gb.

#FIREDAVEY

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1143 on: July 02, 2018, 10:50:16 pm »
42-41.

7 gb.

#FIREDAVEY
No. Let him suffer with us. Why should he get all that money for doing nothing.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1144 on: July 02, 2018, 10:57:26 pm »
Oh give it a rest already :roll:

Firing Dusty made total sense if you thought that making the playoffs is the Nats God given right and is easy. You would have thought the Nats would have learned that that is not the case in 2015, but apparently they need to learn it again...

Do you actually doubt this team would be in a better position if they had kept Dusty (and therefore the other coaches)?

Offline Air Desmond

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1145 on: July 02, 2018, 11:01:00 pm »
Honestly. You have to fire him if this team falls under .500

I’m not crazy for thinking that, right? He’s horribly mismanaged the talent on this team. The baserunning resembles a little league game. There’s no accountability. Every game is the same story.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1146 on: July 02, 2018, 11:04:55 pm »
Firing Dusty made total sense if you thought that making the playoffs is the Nats God given right and is easy. You would have thought the Nats would have learned that that is not the case in 2015, but apparently they need to learn it again...

Do you actually doubt this team would be in a better position if they had kept Dusty (and therefore the other coaches)?
I do. I don't see how the poor hitting is connected to the manager. Or the hitting coach. It's not like he has changed their hitting styles.  The pitching is just as good. The division is much better. There was no competition the last couple years. Would Harper have been signed long term so he doesn't press so much. Would Murphy not have missed 70 games? Would Eaton not have missed half the season?  Would Dusty have somehow forced the Braves and Phillies to be not so good? 


Offline LoveAngelos

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1147 on: July 02, 2018, 11:24:08 pm »
Poor hitting has a lot to do with the revolving door lineup.
Dusty set a line up and stuck with it even as injuries occured. Martinez acts like this is little league where he needs to give everyone  enough playing time to keep the parents happy.
The players need consistency to be effective.

IMHO and no one has the balls to sit Harper but Taylor should be playing every day

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1148 on: July 02, 2018, 11:30:42 pm »
Honestly. You have to fire him if this team falls under .500

I’m not crazy for thinking that, right? He’s horribly mismanaged the talent on this team. The baserunning resembles a little league game. There’s no accountability. Every game is the same story.

You're not crazy, you're just stupid.

Exactly what has been mismanaged? Half the talent on this team is on the freaking DL. Exactly what is he supposed to do, turn Reynolds into a .300 hitter? Make Fedde and Rodriguez into 2/3 starters?

I do. I don't see how the poor hitting is connected to the manager. Or the hitting coach. It's not like he has changed their hitting styles.  The pitching is just as good. The division is much better. There was no competition the last couple years. Would Harper have been signed long term so he doesn't press so much. Would Murphy not have missed 70 games? Would Eaton not have missed half the season?  Would Dusty have somehow forced the Braves and Phillies to be not so good? 



Of course not, but I guess we just check our freaking brains at the door and blame the manager for this.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #1149 on: July 02, 2018, 11:34:40 pm »


Do you actually doubt this team would be in a better position if they had kept Dusty (and therefore the other coaches)?



yes