Poll

Updated - who does Harper sign with?

Nationals
25 (47.2%)
Phillies
22 (41.5%)
Padres
2 (3.8%)
D'backs
1 (1.9%)
White Sox
3 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 52

Author Topic: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....  (Read 196219 times)

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Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2800 on: February 26, 2019, 05:03:16 pm »
https://twitter.com/br_betting/status/1100494361287114752?s=21

And now the Dodgers are the favorites.

They probably should have been the entire time.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2801 on: February 26, 2019, 05:06:50 pm »
My assumptions have been with a 4 or 5 year opt out.  Agree that 3 a probably too short, that being said, 3 makes it more likely he’ll opt,out and you won’t have to pay the end.  Would you sign Bryce for 3/95? I would.
3/105 if it's 350/10.  Yeah, of course that's a good deal.  3/105 plus a 245 million guarantee if something goes with him.. then no way.

Offline hotshot

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2802 on: February 26, 2019, 05:15:05 pm »
They probably should have been the entire time.

Mansion in Benedict Canyon, Holmby, Brentwood or Bel Air, beach place in Malibu or Zuma, great weather.  Neither Philly, Chicago nor DC can offer that lifestyle.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2803 on: February 26, 2019, 05:21:04 pm »
3/105 if it's 350/10.  Yeah, of course that's a good deal.  3/105 plus a 245 million guarantee if something goes with him.. then no way.

I imagine you could insure the contract in case he does opt in. The thing that’s neglected is that putting in an opt out saves the club money. If 10/350 is available with an opt out, I imagine it’s not available without one. 

Offline bluestreak

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2804 on: February 26, 2019, 05:22:13 pm »
Mansion in Benedict Canyon, Holmby, Brentwood or Bel Air, beach place in Malibu or Zuma, great weather.  Neither Philly, Chicago nor DC can offer that lifestyle.

I always figured that at that level of income, lifestyle is the pretty much same no matter which major city you live in.  :shrug:

Offline UMDNats

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2805 on: February 26, 2019, 05:22:54 pm »
I always figured that at that level of income, lifestyle is the pretty much same no matter which major city you live in. 

yes but not every city has year-round 70 degree days or readily available beach access

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2806 on: February 26, 2019, 05:26:19 pm »
yes but not every city has year-round 70 degree days or readily available beach access
More importantly he and or his wife can fly home in an hour.

Offline Trea Burner

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2807 on: February 26, 2019, 05:32:35 pm »
They probably should have been the entire time.

True. Teams like the Dodgers or Yankees seem to miraculously end up being there in the end.

Offline bluestreak

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Offline nfotiu

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2810 on: February 26, 2019, 05:44:00 pm »
What happened to all the reports about Gabe and Bryce's bromance.

It definitely seems like he doesn't want to go to Philly, but at some price and his own terms, he'd go.   Not sure I'd be that excited about him coming begrudgingly if I was a Phillies fan.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2811 on: February 26, 2019, 05:45:40 pm »
He really should have taken our offer.

I think he genuinely didn’t want to be here. If that’s the case, he shouldn’t have.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2812 on: February 26, 2019, 05:49:37 pm »
I'd love to one day hear a former player talk about how important the city is versus the money and the quality of the team they're joining. Seems to me like you're on the road half the season anyway and can live wherever you want for the offseason. I'm not so sure that the LA or San Diego "lifestyle" should be an enormous factor.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2813 on: February 26, 2019, 05:50:50 pm »
What happened to all the reports about Gabe and Bryce's bromance.

It definitely seems like he doesn't want to go to Philly, but at some price and his own terms, he'd go.   Not sure I'd be that excited about him coming begrudgingly if I was a Phillies fan.

Philly doesn’t seem like the kind of city that will happily embrace someone who is only there because the places they preferred balked at the price

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2814 on: February 26, 2019, 05:50:55 pm »
I imagine you could insure the contract in case he does opt in. The thing that’s neglected is that putting in an opt out saves the club money. If 10/350 is available with an opt out, I imagine it’s not available without one.

I think "imagine" is the right word there.  What rational insurer would take that risk? 

And how does the opt-out save the club money?  It's like any other option - the dude exercises it if it's in the money, if not then not.    By definition, the only money the club "saves" is from him opting out of what's then an under-MV contract. 

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2815 on: February 26, 2019, 05:52:02 pm »
I'd love to one day hear a former player talk about how important the city is versus the money and the quality of the team they're joining. Seems to me like you're on the road half the season anyway and can live wherever you want for the offseason. I'm not so sure that the LA or San Diego "lifestyle" should be an enormous factor.

If you’re on a long enough deal, you’re family is either moving there or your being separated for half the year. The player may not care about the place, but happy wife happy life

Offline bluestreak

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2816 on: February 26, 2019, 05:57:40 pm »
I think "imagine" is the right word there.  What rational insurer would take that risk? 

And how does the opt-out save the club money?  It's like any other option - the dude exercises it if it's in the money, if not then not.    By definition, the only money the club "saves" is from him opting out of what's then an under-MV contract.

It saves the club money during the negotiation. You give the guy an opt out in exchange for less dollars in total contract value. The AAV of a contract without an opt out will be bigger than one that contains one. The AAV of a long contract will be smaller that that of a short one.

And you can insure a contract against injury. I am positive someone could write a policy for performance. But you’re right, I said imagine. Because it would take creativity to do it and i don’t know the insurance business. But if David Wright’s contract was insured others could be too.

Serious question, what is the actual probability of Harper not opting out after four or five years if it’s available? I’d say much less than 20% and probably less than that.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2817 on: February 26, 2019, 06:22:32 pm »
As the Harper Turns.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2818 on: February 26, 2019, 06:31:58 pm »
It saves the club money during the negotiation. You give the guy an opt out in exchange for less dollars in total contract value. The AAV of a contract without an opt out will be bigger than one that contains one. The AAV of a long contract will be smaller that that of a short one.

And you can insure a contract against injury. I am positive someone could write a policy for performance. But you’re right, I said imagine. Because it would take creativity to do it and i don’t know the insurance business. But if David Wright’s contract was insured others could be too.

Serious question, what is the actual probability of Harper not opting out after four or five years if it’s available? I’d say much less than 20% and probably less than that.

In this situation, it's not clear that it does save money.  If Harper is literally just going to take the biggest dollar value (as rumored) or highest AAV, an opt-out does nothing for that.  It makes a lot of sense when you're trying to separate yourself from another offer or two that's close to yours.  Here, that doesn't seem to be the case, and $35mm plus opt outs is...well, just an insane combination for that player.

As to the probability of him opting out, it's hard to guess, but 5 out of the 6 players with opt outs available from contracts with AAVs over $10m that came due this offseason didn't use them, sticking several teams with bad contracts - Price, Melancon, Heyward, Yasmany Tomas(!), Andrus.  Only Kershaw opted out, and he basically just took a 1-year extension for doing so after a lot of hemming and hawing about whether he would stay in or not.   The previous year also saw high-value contracts with opt-outs unused: Wei-Yin Chen, Cueto (yikes!), Ian Kennedy (3 years and $49 million, no wonder he stayed in!), Tanaka (this one looks ok for NYY at least). 

Granted, most of those guys are several years older and a lot more injured than Harper will likely be in 3 or 4 years, but it's hard to pin it as low as 20% given that history.

Offline Trea Burner

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2819 on: February 26, 2019, 06:35:19 pm »
As the Harper Turns.

It’s going to be funny when the Dodgers don’t get what they expected. Even Lebron will be laughing as the pressure will be off him a bit.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2820 on: February 26, 2019, 06:38:49 pm »
It’s going to be funny when the Dodgers don’t get what they expected. Even Lebron will be laughing as the pressure will be off him a bit.
Leaving lots of money on the table for a short deal puts pressure on him. He didn’t respond well to that pressure last year. Betting on himself to have a big three years.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2821 on: February 26, 2019, 06:42:04 pm »
It saves the club money during the negotiation. You give the guy an opt out in exchange for less dollars in total contract value. The AAV of a contract without an opt out will be bigger than one that contains one. The AAV of a long contract will be smaller that that of a short one.

And you can insure a contract against injury. I am positive someone could write a policy for performance. But you’re right, I said imagine. Because it would take creativity to do it and i don’t know the insurance business. But if David Wright’s contract was insured others could be too.

Serious question, what is the actual probability of Harper not opting out after four or five years if it’s available? I’d say much less than 20% and probably less than that.

The answer to your question depends a lot on what you think baseball economics and the cba are going to look like in 5 years.  I personally think salaries have flattened out and there will likely be a bit of a correction across all sports as the cable sports bubble bursts.   I think new CBA lower free agent age, and modestly loosens the luxury tax, but don't think those would be big factors for him.   So I think it is rather unlikely that if Harper performs reasonably well, the Phillies are doing well, that he would take the option.   I also think that the odds of him becoming an injury riddled or underperforming player are greater than 20%.

All that said, I believe the intent of that 3 year option is in case he hates the city or team or the teams sucks.   No way he asks for that in from a team he wants to go to.

Offline aBaltoNat

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2822 on: February 26, 2019, 07:30:41 pm »
So you're saying we dont have a chance?

Offline bluestreak

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2823 on: February 26, 2019, 08:20:23 pm »
So you're saying we dont have a chance?

Time to change the avatar...

Offline aBaltoNat

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #2824 on: February 26, 2019, 08:37:22 pm »
Time to change the avatar...

I actually just thought about that two days ago. Tried on my phone and couldn't figure it out...and then felt guilty for even considering it.

Don't even know who I'd put on there...may have to go with a WVU logo...