All-Stars- Bryce, Max, Doo and maybe Trea

[spidernat]

What stats did Turner have that were better?

Did one do better in fan voting?

SB and OBP, but it's bluestreak, he did the same thing when Arenado was chosen over Rendon. He wants all the Nats on the team like FP. 

[nats2playoffs]

Trea Turner is one of the NL Final Vote candidates:

The 89th MLB All-Star Game presented by Mastercard will be played July 17 in Washington, D.C. Watch on FOX at 7:30 p.m. ET.
https://www.mlb.com/news/2018-mlb-all-star-rosters-announced/c-284818156

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Starters
C: Wilson Ramos, Rays
1B: Jose Abreu, White Sox
2B: Jose Altuve, Astros
3B: Jose Ramirez, Indians
SS: Manny Machado, Orioles
OF: Mookie Betts, Red Sox
OF: Mike Trout, Angels
OF: Aaron Judge, Yankees
DH: J.D. Martinez, Red Sox

Reserves
C: Salvador Perez, Royals ^
1B: Mitch Moreland, Red Sox ^
2B: Gleyber Torres, Yankees ^
3B: Alex Bregman, Astros ^
SS: Francisco Lindor, Indians ^
OF: Michael Brantley, Indians ^
OF: Shin-Soo Choo, Rangers ^
OF: Mitch Haniger, Mariners ^
OF: George Springer, Astros ^
OF: Nelson Cruz, Mariners ^

Pitchers
RHP: Trevor Bauer, Indians *
RHP: Jose Berrios, Twins *
LHP: Aroldis Chapman, Yankees ^
RHP: Gerrit Cole, Astros ^
RHP: Edwin Diaz, Mariners ^
LHP: J.A. Happ, Blue Jays *
RHP: Joe Jimenez, Tigers *
RHP: Craig Kimbrel, Red Sox ^
RHP: Corey Kluber, Indians ^
LHP: Chris Sale, Red Sox ^
RHP: Luis Severino, Yankees ^
RHP: Blake Treinen, Athletics *
RHP: Justin Verlander, Astros @

Final Vote candidates
OF: Andrew Benintendi, Red Sox
OF: Eddie Rosario, Twins
SS: Jean Segura, Mariners
SS: Andrelton Simmons, Angels
OF: Giancarlo Stanton, Yankees

NATIONALS LEAGUE
Starters
C: Willson Contreras, Cubs
1B: Freddie Freeman, Braves
2B: Javier Baez, Cubs
3B: Nolan Arenado, Rockies
SS: Brandon Crawford, Giants
OF: Nick Markakis, Braves
OF: Matt Kemp, Dodgers
OF: Bryce Harper, Nationals

Reserves
C: Buster Posey, Giants ^
C: J.T. Realmuto, Marlins *
1B: Paul Goldschmidt, D-backs *
1B: Joey Votto, Reds ^
2B: Ozzie Albies, Braves ^
2B: Scooter Gennett, Reds *
3B: Eugenio Suarez, Reds ^
SS: Trevor Story, Rockies ^
OF: Charlie Blackmon, Rockies ^
OF: Lorenzo Cain, Brewers ^
OF: Christian Yelich, Brewers ^

Pitchers
LHP: Patrick Corbin, D-backs *
RHP: Jacob deGrom, Mets ^
LHP: Sean Doolittle, Nationals ^
RHP: Mike Foltynewicz, Braves ^
LHP: Josh Hader, Brewers ^
LHP: Brad Hand, Padres ^
RHP: Kenley Jansen, Dodgers *
LHP: Jon Lester, Cubs ^
RHP: Miles Mikolas, Cardinals *
RHP: Aaron Nola, Phillies ^
RHP: Max Scherzer, Nationals ^
LHP: Felipe Vazquez, Pirates *

Final Vote candidates
1B: Jesus Aguilar, Brewers
1B: Brandon Belt, Giants
INF: Matt Carpenter, Cardinals
INF/OF: Max Muncy, Dodgers
SS: Trea Turner, Nationals


^ Player Ballot-elected
* Choice of MLB
@ Inactive

[bluestreak]

What stats did Turner have that were better?

Did one do better in fan voting?

Turner .282/.359/.425
Story .282/.347/.522

Given that Story plays in Coors in all washes out in wRC+ Story 116   Turner 113

Turner is second in the league in stolen bases with 22 and Story has 11
Turner is a better defender Turner Defensive runs saved 9, Story 1

As a result of all of this Turner is a 3.2 fWAR player versus 2.3 fWAR for story
Turner is a 3.5 bWAR player and Story is 2.5 bWAR

So basically over a whole season, Turner is worth 2 wins more than story over a full season than Story.

I know you'll disregard the WAR, but their batting stats are a wash and Turner is much better in the field and on the base paths. he's a better overall player. If Story didn't play in Coors, he wouldn't have been picked.

[bluestreak]

SB and OBP, but it's bluestreak, he did the same thing when Arenado was chosen over Rendon. He wants all the Nats on the team like FP. 

I didn't have a problem with Arenado getting picked. He's fantastic. I had a problem with those who said Rendon wasn't really worthy, which the rest of the season bore out.

I know you're stirring the pot, but I don't care.

[varoadking]

Turner .282/.359/.425
Story .282/.347/.522

Given that Story plays in Coors in all washes out in wRC+ Story 116   Turner 113

Turner is second in the league in stolen bases with 22 and Story has 11
Turner is a better defender Turner Defensive runs saved 9, Story 1

As a result of all of this Turner is a 3.2 fWAR player versus 2.3 fWAR for story
Turner is a 3.5 bWAR player and Story is 2.5 bWAR

So basically over a whole season, Turner is worth 2 wins more than story over a full season than Story.

I know you'll disregard the WAR, but their batting stats are a wash and Turner is much better in the field and on the base paths. he's a better overall player. If Story didn't play in Coors, he wouldn't have been picked.

Interesting...I didn't see...did one get more votes?

So at 1.5 WAR, do you think is Royce a deserving ALL STAR?

[bluestreak]

Interesting...I didn't see...did one get more votes?

So at 1.5 WAR, do you think is Royce a deserving ALL STAR?

Story had more votes at the July 2nd update. He was 4th among shortstops.  They didn’t release final numbers. Story was voted by the players, but that doesn’t make it less dumb. I am sure they looked that they had the same BA and that Story had more HR, and picked him.  It’s not a huge tragedy, but it’s dumb nonetheless. 

As far a Bryce is concerned I have zero problem with him being an All-Star. It’s an exhibition primarily for the fans and if they vote him in, that’s great. So he’s in on popularity.  That’s the rules for the starters and I think it’s a good rule. I’ll neber have a real problem with someone getting voted in.
As far as whether he’s statistically deserving, he’s clearly not. He is 16th among NL outfielders in fWAR.

But I don’t think that votes should matter for the reserves.  The reserves picks are designed to correct the errors that fans make and make sure deserving players get in. And in a world in which Corey Seager is out for the season, I think that Turner is the best overall shortstop in the NL if you look at the stats.

[varoadking]

Story had more votes at the July 2nd update. He was 4th among shortstops.  They didn’t release final numbers. Story was voted by the players, but that doesn’t make it less dumb. I am sure they looked that they had the same BA and that Story had more HR, and picked him.  It’s not a huge tragedy, but it’s dumb nonetheless. 

As far a Bryce is concerned I have zero problem with him being an All-Star. It’s an exhibition primarily for the fans and if they vote him in, that’s great. So he’s in on popularity.  That’s the rules for the starters and I think it’s a good rule. I’ll neber have a real problem with someone getting voted in.
As far as whether he’s statistically deserving, he’s clearly not. He is 16th among NL outfielders in fWAR.

But I don’t think that votes should matter for the reserves.  The reserves picks are designed to correct the errors that fans make and make sure deserving players get in. And in a world in which Corey Seager is out for the season, I think that Turner is the best overall shortstop in the NL if you look at the stats.

Fair enough...

I just dropped a lot of votes for Trea...they didn't stop me and it seems like I must have entered 50 or 60...

[Ray D]

As far a Bryce is concerned I have zero problem with him being an All-Star. It’s an exhibition primarily for the fans and if they vote him in, that’s great. So he’s in on popularity.  That’s the rules for the starters and I think it’s a good rule. I’ll neber have a real problem with someone getting voted in.

I'd go along with you on that completely, if the voting weren't so stupid.  Any election where people can vote essentially an unlimited number of times is ridiculous.
Far as Harper is concerned, game is in DC so he should be there.  Anywhere else, no.

[Ray D]

I don't see why Story and Turner couldn't both be on the roster.  Three shortstops is not excessive.  Turner is the MVP of the Nationals and the game is in Washington.

  And I think it's a big mistake not to include Soto. MLB has a big enough problem vs. other sports, holding the interest of young people.  Here you have a 19 year old phenon, with the game in his home park.  They've wasted a big opportunity by not showcasing him.

In general, I think special consideration should be given to the home team players; Turner and Soto should be on the roster.

 I won't argue quite as hard for Rendon though I think he should be there too.   I can see the argument against three third basemen (even though I believe you can carry three shortstops; shortstop is a more important position).

[Baseball is Life]

Interesting to note that Blake Treinen (A's) and Felipe (Rivero) Vasquez were relievers traded by Rizzo that ended up making the ASG shortly after.

[Greg_SRT]

Interesting to note that Blake Treinen (A's) and Felipe (Rivero) Vasquez were relievers traded by Rizzo that ended up making the ASG shortly after.

I didn’t think Felipe was a good trade when it happened.

I like Blake but it’s classic case of change of scenery. Blake always had the stuff, just couldn’t get it done in a new role here.

[3bside]

Treinen's numbers this year with Oakland are crazy good, but we're doing fine with Doolittle. 

[DPMOmaha]

Fame and popularity are part of the equation here, not just performance. Bryce has that. It's gonna get him into this game for the rest of his career. And having the game in DC, it's good for him to be a part of it. It'll be good for him to be a part of the Home Run Derby.

[Smithian]

What stats did Turner have that were better?

Did one do better in fan voting?

Turner has a higher WAR by almost a full point.

[Ray D]

Turner has a higher WAR by almost a full point.

Some people like WAR, some like OPS.   Story has significantly higher OPS.    (Personally, I like OPS, because it's not a mystery, like WAR.)

[nfotiu]

I'd go along with you on that completely, if the voting weren't so stupid.  Any election where people can vote essentially an unlimited number of times is ridiculous.
Far as Harper is concerned, game is in DC so he should be there.  Anywhere else, no.

Is there some agreed upon criteria of what an all star should be?   Although some guys make the team with a hot first half, I've never thought it was supposed to be the guys with the best half season.  Isn't it supposed to just be the biggest stars of the game.  And that is usually mostly long time big names the fans want to see with a few hot up and comers mixed in.   Bryce is still one of the biggest stars in the game, and  easily fits into that criteria for now.  Although, if he can't get anything going between now and next July, he starts falling down that list pretty fast.

[Smithian]

Some people like WAR, some like OPS.   Story has significantly higher OPS.    (Personally, I like OPS, because it's not a mystery, like WAR.)

WAR isn't perfect, but I like that it at least tries to bring in base running and defense. Considering Turner tears it up on the bases and is having a good season in the field, I feel it is relevant for him.


But yes, Story has had a better season than Turner at the plate.

[bluestreak]

Some people like WAR, some like OPS.   Story has significantly higher OPS.    (Personally, I like OPS, because it's not a mystery, like WAR.)

1) OPS doesn’t take into account anything other than hitting and a large part of Turner’s value comes from his baserunning.
2) Story’s OPS advantage is purely based on his slugging since Trea gets on base more. And where does Story play vs where does Turner play? There is a reason turner leads by a lot in WAR.

[hotshot]

Max and Doolittle are the only ones that should make it

Spot on. Although the All-Star hitting bar has been lowered across the game, the other guys aren't deserving.

[Ray D]

Is there some agreed upon criteria of what an all star should be?   Although some guys make the team with a hot first half, I've never thought it was supposed to be the guys with the best half season.  Isn't it supposed to just be the biggest stars of the game. 

This is the reason why I favor letting the fans decide.  There should be no official criteria, because there will never be agreement.  It should be who the fans want to see.  I just don't like the means by which the fans decide (unlimited voting).

[Ray D]

And I'm not saying one fan one vote.  There's no way to carry that out.  Should be, you buy a ticket to a game (during the voting period) you get a vote. 20 games, 20 votes. Want to give your vote to someone else? Fine.  The old way.  Except it doesn't have to be paper ballots like the old days, it can be done electronically (the details can easily be worked out).

[bluestreak]

And I'm not saying one fan one vote.  There's no way to carry that out.  Should be, you buy a ticket to a game (during the voting period) you get a vote. 20 games, 20 votes. Want to give your vote to someone else? Fine.  The old way.  Except it doesn't have to be paper ballots like the old days, it can be done electronically (the details can easily be worked out).

I actually liked the paper ballots.  Made it a little hard to vote and made stuffing the ballot box harder. Plus it ensures that most of the folks voting were actual fans. I remember that Voting was kind of a big deal when I went to the park, I actually looked forward to it. This may have been because I was a kid and only got to the a major league game only 2 times a season, so I was excited about everything.  And if you couldn’t get to the park, you could still get a ballot, you just had to go to a little effort (like go to the grocery store and get one from
The Pepsi (?) display).   But I tend to agree that this unlimited online voting just seems dumb.

And I don’t even think the fans did that bad a job.

[Optics]

I am so god damn sick of Coors Field inflating everyone's stats and getting fake All Stars in. Turner should be in.

[Natsinpwc]

And I'm not saying one fan one vote.  There's no way to carry that out.  Should be, you buy a ticket to a game (during the voting period) you get a vote. 20 games, 20 votes. Want to give your vote to someone else? Fine.  The old way.  Except it doesn't have to be paper ballots like the old days, it can be done electronically (the details can easily be worked out).

Ron Cey used to beat out Mike Schmidt just about every year that old fashioned way. It was no better than what we have now. Most fans are clueless.

[mitlen]

Fair enough...

I just dropped a lot of votes for Trea...they didn't stop me and it seems like I must have entered 50 or 60...

Just like bein' home in Chicago.