Author Topic: The Window - 2019 and Beyond  (Read 3488 times)

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Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2018, 02:29:09 pm »
Generally agree, except for this trend: older guys get older a lot faster without the "help" they used to be able to inject. 35 is over the hill, except maybe for finesse pitchers.

It's barely an educated guess on how younger players/prospects will develop, how older guys will age and how much they decline if at all, and how healthy guys will remain in the future.  I don't see much reason/point to worry about 2 and 3 years down the line right now.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2018, 02:34:58 pm »
If Robles, Soto, Rendon, and Turner develop into 6+ win players, the Nats will
Be competitive for years. That’s not a certainty, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility

Rendon could easily get there. Turner doesn't seem like he has the profile of a 6 WAR player (his similarity scores don't really have 6 war players either https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/turnetr01.shtml). Soto seems like the kid of prospect that every team has and that every fanbase thinks could be really good, but that ends up being just another guy. Robles does seem like he could be special though. To me there is nothing about our system that really stands out as head and shoulders above other systems and that's what they'd need to sustain a run.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2018, 04:01:42 pm »
Agree with this. If Robles, Soto, Rendon, and Turner develop into 6+ win players, the Nats will be competitive for years. That’s not by any mean a certainty, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility.  If they sustain significant injuries, the Nats will suck. Also not outside the realm of
Possibility. Speculating past 2019 seems silly.

I can see the "fun" in it, but mostly it is an exercise I did when the Expos/early Nats were bad and I was daydreaming of prospects developing and a better lineup down the line.  Unless Rizzo leaves, I see him more retooling than ever tearing down and rebuilding. 

With the starting pitching, the only certainty right now seems to be that Gio Gonzalez won't be here beyond this season.  With the way his velo has severely declined, the tight rope he was able to walk in 2017 after falling off of the 2 years prior will remain dangerous as he further ages.  Stras has had durability issues, but how many pitchers don't have some concerns?  SPs in this day and age are just fragile by nature.  I think he's continued to adjust and do things to help him stay healthy and get through the season.  I feel good about him being at the start of his prime now and smart enough to do everything possible to stay healthy in the coming years.  Max still has the velo, but he's such a bulldog and his secondary stuff is so good that I think his decline will be slow and gradual.  I like Roark continuing on as a solid #3/#4 guy, and hopefully Fedde/Ross/Cole can have at least 1 emerge as a quality option on the back-end.  With the guys coming off and potentially coming off the books after this season, I also wouldn't rule out making a big splash in the free agent market next winter.  The key will be to start to develop some prospects to take the torch from Max and later Stras and Roark. 

As for position players, Harper is obviously a huge question mark.  Eaton has a nice immediate future with us, and Robles seems like a can't-miss starter somewhere in the OF.  I think Soto isn't far behind.  I don't think we'll need to hit free agency or the trade market hard there.

Replacing Murph is going to be likely the biggest storyline of the next offseason beyond Harper's decision.  With Murph's age and knee, I think his future is at 1B or DH someplace.  I don't think Difo is going to be counted on.  If Howie stays healthy until Murph makes it back, Difo just won't get enough opportunity to show last year's progress was enough to bank on him everyday.  If finding a 2B proves troubling, and there is value with available 3B (like there was this year when Moustakas went dirt cheap back to KC), I'd consider moving Rendon back to 2B and signing a 3B.  The market for 1B that can barely play the OF like Lind and Adams is cheap as we've seen, so we should be able to find a lefty compliment to the aging Zim at 1B.  Obviously when Zim's contract is up we'll have to find a permanent answer at 1B, however that's not a difficult position to fill adequately.  We'll see if Severino proves to be the future at C. 

As for the bullpen, those can be retooled year to year.  It would be nice if Koda Glover become a fixture that can stay healthy. 

Offline bluestreak

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2018, 04:32:37 pm »
Rendon could easily get there. Turner doesn't seem like he has the profile of a 6 WAR player (his similarity scores don't really have 6 war players either https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/turnetr01.shtml). Soto seems like the kid of prospect that every team has and that every fanbase thinks could be really good, but that ends up being just another guy. Robles does seem like he could be special though. To me there is nothing about our system that really stands out as head and shoulders above other systems and that's what they'd need to sustain a run.

Turner is a big question mark. He’s still so young.  If he can learn to hit left handed pitching, then I definitely can see him in the 5-6 WAR range given his speed and position.

Offline tomterp

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2018, 04:50:16 pm »

With the starting pitching, the only certainty right now seems to be that Gio Gonzalez won't be here beyond this season.  With the way his velo has severely declined, the tight rope he was able to walk in 2017 after falling off of the 2 years prior will remain dangerous as he further ages. 

He lost velocity the first half of last year (from 2016) but was quite effective.  However, his velocity dropped significantly the 2nd half of the season and his performance waned.

https://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=7448&position=P&pitch=FA&data=pi


Online Natsinpwc

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2018, 06:30:41 pm »
He lost velocity the first half of last year (from 2016) but was quite effective.  However, his velocity dropped significantly the 2nd half of the season and his performance waned.

https://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=7448&position=P&pitch=FA&data=pi
Impressed he had a good start yesterday but skeptical it will last.  Anxious to see how Tanner does tonight.

Offline miket14

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2018, 10:45:50 am »
Are they “once in a generation” talent though? If those guys had actually performed like Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw, we would be having a different conversation I imagine.

You could argue this team has done DC things in spite of the best efforts of Harper and Strasburg.

Offline CoryTheFormerExposFan

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2018, 03:52:03 pm »
He lost velocity the first half of last year (from 2016) but was quite effective.  However, his velocity dropped significantly the 2nd half of the season and his performance waned.

https://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=7448&position=P&pitch=FA&data=pi

I'm hoping Gio gives us league average 180 IP for 31-32 starts this year.  He's been durable, and his floor at least hasn't been terrible with his ceiling been good.  I wouldn't commit much at all to keep him beyond this season, but I hope we can milk 1 more decent year out of him. 

I do have reservations about him being a SP in the postseason again.  He can help us get through the season and win the NL East, but we need Roark to return to 2014 and 2016 form and be the Game 3 starter and perhaps even look to add somebody at the deadline. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2018, 05:27:37 pm »
I'm hoping Gio gives us league average 180 IP for 31-32 starts this year.  He's been durable, and his floor at least hasn't been terrible with his ceiling been good.  I wouldn't commit much at all to keep him beyond this season, but I hope we can milk 1 more decent year out of him. 

I do have reservations about him being a SP in the postseason again.  He can help us get through the season and win the NL East, but we need Roark to return to 2014 and 2016 form and be the Game 3 starter and perhaps even look to add somebody at the deadline. 
IF he's sub-4 ERA and 180 innings, then I think he's a no-brainer for a QO, which he should take.  That's your transition piece.

Offline tenken627

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2018, 05:49:03 pm »
Moreso than any decision on any player, I think resigning Mike Rizzo to a contract would affect our window than anything else. Its not a coincidence the Nats turned a corner from those awful years in the 2000s. And his contract is up this year. And damn, the 2000s were brutal

Offline dcpatti

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2018, 06:18:24 pm »
IF he's sub-4 ERA and 180 innings, then I think he's a no-brainer for a QO, which he should take.  That's your transition piece.

He really wants to stay here and would probably take a 2-year deal at a hefty discount. Transition piece and depth. He’ll probably be well on the decline in 2020 but could do long relief or mop up duty and the occasional spot start. Then you don’t have to give him the QO.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2018, 06:31:21 pm »
Moreso than any decision on any player, I think resigning Mike Rizzo to a contract would affect our window than anything else. Its not a coincidence the Nats turned a corner from those awful years in the 2000s. And his contract is up this year. And damn, the 2000s were brutal

Of course it’s no coincidence that Bryce and Strasburg came along and the Lerners started spending. The fact that people hope gio sticks around for an extension speaks volumes about Rizzo’s ability to develop pitchers

Offline tenken627

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2018, 07:18:31 pm »
Of course it’s no coincidence that Bryce and Strasburg came along and the Lerners started spending. The fact that people hope gio sticks around for an extension speaks volumes about Rizzo’s ability to develop pitchers

You could draft mike freakin trout and have Arte Moreno opening bags of cash and still not have a good team

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2018, 07:32:37 pm »
You could draft mike freakin trout and have Arte Moreno opening bags of cash and still not have a good team

Spending plus competent works, that’s what we have, but he’s not the worst, so washington fans will call him the best.

Offline tenken627

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2018, 07:42:17 pm »
Eh. I dunno. I dont think a lot of the top tier GMs are much better than the next tier. If you are good, you are good. Its just a matter of whether you have a ring or not, which takes on too many variables for any one GM can control. Theo, Cashman all have WTF moments.

But after a certain tier, the quality of GMs drop off considerably

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2018, 07:55:19 pm »
Eh. I dunno. I dont think a lot of the top tier GMs are much better than the next tier. If you are good, you are good. Its just a matter of whether you have a ring or not, which takes on too many variables for any one GM can control. Theo, Cashman all have WTF moments.

But after a certain tier, the quality of GMs drop off considerably

Theo and Rizzo aren’t remotely in the same tier, Theo won, went to a team with a century long drought and only took five year to tear it down and win a ring. Rizzo is pushing a decade now and hasn’t sniffed an nlcs let alone a World Series

Offline tenken627

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2018, 08:01:20 pm »
Theo and Rizzo aren’t remotely in the same tier, Theo won, went to a team with a century long drought and only took five year to tear it down and win a ring. Rizzo is pushing a decade now and hasn’t sniffed an nlcs let alone a World Series

I never said they were in the same tier. Just that a lot of times stuff happens (for better or worse) that is outside of a GMs reach (which are often strategic decisions). It took a miracle for the 04 Sox to get past the ALCS.

Offline tenken627

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2018, 08:03:00 pm »
And a roided up one at that

Offline MorseTheHorse

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2018, 08:08:00 pm »
IF he's sub-4 ERA and 180 innings, then I think he's a no-brainer for a QO, which he should take.  That's your transition piece.

Scherzer, Stras, Roark, Ross, Fedde, Cole.  Doesn't feel like there is room for Gio after this year.   

I don't like bringing Gio back.  Even if he wins the Cy Young this year, I wouldn't want him on the postseason roster. 

Online SkinsNatFan21RIP

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2018, 08:58:43 pm »
Theo and Rizzo aren’t remotely in the same tier, Theo won, went to a team with a century long drought and only took five year to tear it down and win a ring. Rizzo is pushing a decade now and hasn’t sniffed an nlcs let alone a World Series

Is it really Rizzo’s fault if the team suddenly can’t hit when the playoffs come around? He’s a pretty damn good GM.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2018, 09:01:08 pm »
Scherzer, Stras, Roark, Ross, Fedde, Cole.  Doesn't feel like there is room for Gio after this year.   

I don't like bringing Gio back.  Even if he wins the Cy Young this year, I wouldn't want him on the postseason roster. 
I want a lefty.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2018, 09:03:17 pm »
Is it really Rizzo’s fault if the team suddenly can’t hit when the playoffs come around? He’s a pretty damn good GM.

He assembled the teams and hired the managers

Offline tenken627

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2018, 10:35:21 am »
The fact that people hope gio sticks around for an extension speaks volumes about Rizzo’s ability to develop pitchers

You are right. Rizzo hasnt been as successful on getting us homegrown pitchers. Just curious though, would you give him credit for scouting/developing Reynaldo Lopez?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2018, 10:43:22 am »
You are right. Rizzo hasnt been as successful on getting us homegrown pitchers. Just curious though, would you give him credit for scouting/developing Reynaldo Lopez?

If you consider that a success, great

Offline tenken627

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Re: The Window - 2019 and Beyond
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2018, 11:00:01 am »
If you consider that a success, great

Too early to tell. Which is why I was curious. He is the very definition of a "on no one's radar" that has come out of the Latin America program