Author Topic: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.  (Read 160892 times)

0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21927
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #650 on: August 03, 2015, 03:52:25 pm »
when Boz turns on you, your days are numbered

Offline sportsfan882

  • Posts: 93631
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #651 on: August 03, 2015, 03:54:32 pm »
I agree Scherzer should have started in this series. They could have easily pushed him back to Friday. But the reasons we lost most of the games were lack of offense and a bad bullpen (or bad bullpen usage).

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 33885
  • Hell yes!
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #652 on: August 03, 2015, 03:54:45 pm »
Weren't you one of the ones arguing for saving pitchers for future hypothetical situations that may never materialize?

Well they signed Papelbon with the promise he'd be the "closer", which means he gets the save opportunities, regardless of how difficult they might be or if there are higher leverage chances in the game.  So they've essentially locked themselves into using him in this manner only. 

Given that (which should NOT be a given regardless) there is no excuse for not pitching Storen over the 3 game series, no matter what MDS thinks.  None.

Offline DCFan

  • Posts: 16722
  • What are you dense?
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #653 on: August 03, 2015, 03:54:56 pm »
Boz isn't happy either.

It's bad managing...


Exactly Boz.  :whip:

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 10073
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #654 on: August 03, 2015, 04:11:34 pm »
Quote
without using your ace in any of six games

Scherzer pitched one of the games in the first series. Sunday, I think, against Harvey.

Offline Kevrock

  • Posts: 13813
  • That’s gonna be a no from me, dog
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #655 on: August 03, 2015, 04:16:10 pm »
Scherzer pitched one of the games in the first series. Sunday, I think, against Harvey.

No he didn't.

Offline Kevrock

  • Posts: 13813
  • That’s gonna be a no from me, dog
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #656 on: August 03, 2015, 04:17:15 pm »
Harvey - Gio
deGrom - Ross
Syndergaard - Zimm

Offline BeltwayBaseball

  • Posts: 926
  • I want to get off Ted & Mark's Wild Ride
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #657 on: August 03, 2015, 04:17:22 pm »
Scherzer pitched one of the games in the first series. Sunday, I think, against Harvey.

He didn't pitch any of them. He was in DC vs. the Dodgers on Star Wars day, think that was a Sunday, vs Greinke, then PNC vs Pittsburgh's Locke, and finally Marlins Park vs Dan Haren in Miami.

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 10073
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #658 on: August 03, 2015, 04:18:44 pm »
Maybe I'm confused.

Offline BeltwayBaseball

  • Posts: 926
  • I want to get off Ted & Mark's Wild Ride
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #659 on: August 03, 2015, 04:21:31 pm »
Maybe I'm confused.

He did pitch Opening Day obviously vs. Colon, and he did match up against Harvey earlier in the year, I think Game 1 of that series where the Nats won 2&3 on 1-0 shutouts.

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 28012
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #660 on: August 03, 2015, 04:21:45 pm »
Maybe I'm confused.
I think you are referring to all season and they are talking about since the all star break only

Offline Ray D

  • Posts: 10073
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #661 on: August 03, 2015, 04:27:40 pm »
No, I see now, I was thinking of his matchup against Grenke.

Offline monkeyhit

  • Posts: 2603
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #662 on: August 03, 2015, 04:33:43 pm »
Go get 'em, Boz.  :|

Offline BeltwayBaseball

  • Posts: 926
  • I want to get off Ted & Mark's Wild Ride
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #663 on: August 03, 2015, 04:36:04 pm »
On MLB Network's MLB Now:

Matheny: Contracts can't be ignored in determining bullpen roles

:hysterical: what'd I say, he's right there with Matt and Mattingly

Offline stoneghost28

  • Posts: 133
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #664 on: August 03, 2015, 05:38:24 pm »
Elle oh freaking elle. There's a difference between the Nats and the Cardinals, can you see it? I don't want to spoil it.

Rizzo is freaking crap. If this is the payoff for all those years of building then I freaking pass.

After years of watching Snyderatto destroy what was left of the redskins after Cooke Jr left, after watching Unseld, O'Malley, EG and friends drown the Wiz/Boulez in the toilet for four decades, after watching the capitals deal one of the 3 or 4 best rookies of the past 5 years for a rental scrub even worse than Mike Miller and Randy Foye, you can't see what we have in Rizzo? Really?

Good lord.

I understand the disgust right now, but direct it where it belongs, with the manager, with some mental make up with a couple of players, and with bad luck with injuries. Rizzo got us Trea Turner, and Joe Ross for literally nothing, he got the #3 ranked prospect in all of baseball three years ago with a mid-late first rounder, he got Reynaldo Lopez for a pittance, he stacked the organization with top flight prospects for six years running both when we stunk, and when we were good and everything inbetween. He's worked his opposing GM in just about every trade he's ever made.

And he's crap?

If you can't notice the difference between Rizzo, and the dreck that has ruined the Capitals, squandered nearly every top first round pick the cellar dwelling bullets/wizards had from '09-'13 (and Unseld and friends in the eighties and nineties), or left the cupboard bare on draft day after annual candidates for worst trade/FA signing of the offseason year after year with the Redskins I really can't help you. I can understand being pissed that all his work has amounted to is two colossal playoff chokes, but at the end of the day, in baseball, the GM can only do so much, after that, it's up to the players to perform, and the manager to not screw it up, unfortunately the latter two factors squandered the '12 and '14 playoff series respectively (well, and nervous bats).

Offline whytev

  • Posts: 8768
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #665 on: August 03, 2015, 05:50:52 pm »
how many managers does he get to blame before people look at his roster construction?

The roster construction is better than the managing. His 2nd best position player so far this year has been rotting on the bench for a week. His two best relievers didn't even warm up last series. His ace got extra rest after the all star break, which led to him missing both Mets series while a rookie had to go up against deGrom twice.

Offline stoneghost28

  • Posts: 133
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #666 on: August 03, 2015, 05:54:17 pm »
well, execpt the GMs with rings, and world series appearances, and those fortunate enough to have a team get out of the division series.

that and the phills won a ring and got another series appearance with hamels

so much like the cardinals, except the whole success thing?

GM's don't play on the field, or pitch. They set the table, and it's up to the players and manager to execute.

I know you think you're being witty, or clever, but the analogy I'm making is in team building. The Cardinals draft well, win trades, and rarely ever overpay for overage guys. The only flaw we've had is in wasting big money on Werth (stupid signing). Beyond that, the Cardinals strategy of building from within via drafting, trades, and strong internal development has kept them contenders for the better part of 18+ years.

Rizzo has built the Nats primarily from the same foundation, consistently drafting well, winning his trades, and being cautious, but smart (for the most part) in the international market. He's eschewed big money moves with the exception of the Scherzer signing which was basically buying in on Scherzer being a smarter long term investment than Zim, and Werth (big money signing meant to signify the Nats were ready to contend and wanted a strong chemistry building club house voice-a stupid choice in my view as Werth was never worth the money, and intangibles aren't worth 50+ million, especially injury prone intangibles), and utilized his late round picks, well, taking calculated risks over safe plays where warranted (see Rendon-Purke, Giolito, Fedde selections in '11, '12, and '14).

You have to have breaks, and be smart to win it all, right now I have no problem with virtually anything Rizzo has done other than Werth and Matt Williams. Williams should have been fired after his interviews with the press following last falls choke job. As a GM that would signify to me that Williams had learned nothing from the catastrophic series of stupid decisions and failures he personally had a hand in, and was unlikely to grow in the job (show's all the traits of a concrete/inflexible personality whom firmly believes he's learned everything he needs to know, playing the game in the eighties, nineties, and aughts, and has nothing to learn from numbers geeks, or, you know, intelligent strategists).

But the key to me is how Rizzo has chosen to build, and how effectively he's done so: he's shown the ability to make the right choices when the team had valuable picks at the top of the draft, and when the team had choices at the bottom, he's won small tinker trades, and big blockbusters. He's built with domestic, and international prospects, and shown the ability to reload the farm system as needed with smart trades of any scale, and with draft picks in any range.

If you have a GM like that, more than likely, you're going to win, eventually, even accidentally through sheer intelligence and talent. The issue is the manager, and no doubt Rizzo's stubbornness with regards to him. He needs to own his mistake in hiring the guy and can him, immediately, before the season is lost, and the '16 season to boot. Really disappointing that he's being allowed to derail one of the better built teams in recent memory, especially in terms of pitching. For that, I'll join in in bashing Rizzo's reluctance to make a radical decision like canning the manager of an elite team that isn't performing like one, I understand why it's difficult to do so, but this squad will be the best one's the Nats have till '18, maybe '17 if we're lucky, it shouldn't be squandered out of loyalty to an incompetent manager.

Offline whytev

  • Posts: 8768
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #667 on: August 03, 2015, 05:59:38 pm »
GM's don't play on the field, or pitch. They set the table, and it's up to the players and manager to execute.

I know you think you're being witty, or clever, but the analogy I'm making is in team building. The Cardinals draft well, win trades, and rarely ever overpay for overage guys. The only flaw we've had is in wasting big money on Werth (stupid signing). Beyond that, the Cardinals strategy of building from within via drafting, trades, and strong internal development has kept them contenders for the better part of 18+ years.

Rizzo has built the Nats primarily from the same foundation, consistently drafting well, winning his trades, and being cautious, but smart (for the most part) in the international market. He's eschewed big money moves with the exception of the Scherzer signing which was basically buying in on Scherzer being a smarter long term investment than Zim, and Werth (big money signing meant to signify the Nats were ready to contend and wanted a strong chemistry building club house voice-a stupid choice in my view as Werth was never worth the money, and intangibles aren't worth 50+ million, especially injury prone intangibles), and utilized his late round picks, well, taking calculated risks over safe plays where warranted (see Rendon-Purke, Giolito, Fedde selections in '11, '12, and '14).

You have to have breaks, and be smart to win it all, right now I have no problem with virtually anything Rizzo has done other than Werth and Matt Williams. Williams should have been fired after his interviews with the press following last falls choke job. As a GM that would signify to me that Williams had learned nothing from the catastrophic series of stupid decisions and failures he personally had a hand in, and was unlikely to grow in the job (show's all the traits of a concrete/inflexible personality whom firmly believes he's learned everything he needs to know, playing the game in the eighties, nineties, and aughts, and has nothing to learn from numbers geeks, or, you know, intelligent strategists).

But the key to me is how Rizzo has chosen to build, and how effectively he's done so: he's shown the ability to make the right choices when the team had valuable picks at the top of the draft, and when the team had choices at the bottom, he's won small tinker trades, and big blockbusters. He's built with domestic, and international prospects, and shown the ability to reload the farm system as needed with smart trades of any scale, and with draft picks in any range.

If you have a GM like that, more than likely, you're going to win, eventually, even accidentally through sheer intelligence and talent. The issue is the manager, and no doubt Rizzo's stubbornness with regards to him. He needs to own his mistake in hiring the guy and can him, immediately, before the season is lost, and the '16 season to boot. Really disappointing that he's being allowed to derail one of the better built teams in recent memory, especially in terms of pitching. For that, I'll join in in bashing Rizzo's reluctance to make a radical decision like canning the manager of an elite team that isn't performing like one, I understand why it's difficult to do so, but this squad will be the best one's the Nats have till '18, maybe '17 if we're lucky, it shouldn't be squandered out of loyalty to an incompetent manager.

I'm with you on all this. Welcome to the board!

Offline DPMOmaha

  • Posts: 22885
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #668 on: August 03, 2015, 06:58:58 pm »
On Boz's take, the think is, it wasn't hindsight, a bunch of people from just about everywhere said the same thing. It kind of worked just fine in the first series, but it backfired big time in the second. If the pattern holds, he won't face them in the next series either and he won't face the Dodgers either.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 45830
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #669 on: August 03, 2015, 07:27:50 pm »
I have been tied up today, traveling and taking care of my Dad.  So I just jumped here to see if he was fired.
:nts:

:(

Online varoadking

  • Posts: 30934
  • King of Goodness
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #670 on: August 03, 2015, 07:30:34 pm »
I have been tied up today, traveling and taking care of my Dad.  So I just jumped here to see if he was fired.
:nts:

:(

No...and FP just told us all why he shouldn't be...other than the fact we owe him thru 2016...  :spaz:

Offline DCFan

  • Posts: 16722
  • What are you dense?
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #671 on: August 03, 2015, 07:37:55 pm »
I'm with you on all this. Welcome to the board!

Amen, what a breath of fresh air.  :cheers:

Offline DCFan

  • Posts: 16722
  • What are you dense?
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #672 on: August 03, 2015, 07:39:20 pm »
and he won't face the Dodgers either.

Damn!  :hang:

Offline tomwvr

  • Posts: 1728
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #673 on: August 03, 2015, 08:24:31 pm »
So Matt can't even get the team ready for a home game needs to be fired after tonight's game

Offline BigMeech

  • Posts: 3771
Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #674 on: August 03, 2015, 08:41:01 pm »
Still saying that Williams should have been fired after he botched the NLDS.  There is inexperience that you can improve on and then there is what Williams did in Game 2 and throughout the series.