Author Topic: Fire Matt Williams! (2015) - Standard Decision.  (Read 159890 times)

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Online Kevrock

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #575 on: August 02, 2015, 11:35:09 pm »
Devil's advocate here. Could it be that they wanted to see if Ross has matured enough to give up a homerun, then face the guy again and have figured out how to avoid a homerun, and in a clutch situation.  He's not there yet, but he needs opportunities like last night to get there.  Is it possible that he learned from that experience, and that that's more important than that one game, because they have to figure out who's who's and what the roles need to be by post season.   There is still alot to figure out, and I get the impression that alot of these moves are "experiments" to see what works consistently. And I don't think that's such a bad idea.

Yeah, I know, your answer is "they're not that smart".   Maybe so, but maybe they really are.

This is fine when you're managing for a whole season in a series against the Rockies or something.

This was a game against our only divisional competition and we just lost the division lead in a sweep and a 3 game swing.

I'm pretty done with Williams. If he had grown since the NLDS in managing a single series and game you would think we would have seen it this weekend, when the situation called for it. Instead, we lost two close ones and another by 3 runs, and the new strength that Rizzo traded for was nowhere to be found.

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #576 on: August 03, 2015, 12:08:35 am »
A GM and ownership with perspective on what this season still could be with some seasoned leadership would've speed-dialed Bud Black tonight.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #577 on: August 03, 2015, 12:22:26 am »
Don't think I've despised a manager more in Nationals history.

Offline BeltwayBaseball

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #578 on: August 03, 2015, 12:40:11 am »
This is fine when you're managing for a whole season in a series against the Rockies or something.

This was a game against our only divisional competition and we just lost the division lead in a sweep and a 3 game swing.

I'm pretty done with Williams. If he had grown since the NLDS in managing a single series and game you would think we would have seen it this weekend, when the situation called for it. Instead, we lost two close ones and another by 3 runs, and the new strength that Rizzo traded for was nowhere to be found.

Perfect opportunity, too. Blame Game 1 on the offense, if you think even if Casey Janssen had been run out in the 12th and 13th they still would have lost, either with him or a position player on the mound. The hits were there but the fundamentals weren't, FP said it himself, game should have been 3-1 Nats in 9 but it was 2-1 Mets in 12.

But Game 2 was the perfect opportunity to treat like a playoff game. There are going to be games where your starter only has thrown 80some pitches and has gotten through well enough but is about to have the game on the line in one AB. That's when you make the switch to Drew Storen to run the gauntlet, inning be damned.

If this were the NLDS there would be no Games 4 and 5 featuring Max Scherzer and Gio Gonzalez, one an ace and the other a noted Met killer. I feel pretty confident going into Games 4 and 5 with those two vs this team. But they wouldn't have the opportunity thanks to Matt's boneheaded devotion to "roles."

Buck Showalter, perhaps the best current manager, even said as much in an interview, that "it's really important for relievers to know their roles [for the sake of their comfort and ability to perform]." Somehow I don't buy that. I think the best of them are adrenaline junkies who will try to get outs wherever and whenever they get thrown in there. I don't want a groomed creature of habit, and that goes for Papelbon as well, but I'm willing to swallow his inflexibility because it was part of the cost to get him so cheap. They can have their "roles," I'm going to face righties, or lefties, more often, I'm going to face heart-of-the-order more often, or bottom-of-the-order, I'm long, I'm one-inning, I'm both, etc. But I'm sick of this blatant inefficiency that you have resources being misused, simply because of the inning's number. I'm willing to buy that the 9th inning is a different animal, look at how many perfectos and no-nos die there, look at all these improbable comebacks, something about "finality" changes the circumstance and the players' performance. The other innings, not so much.

Right now I put Matt ahead of Mattingly, below Matheny. Superstar "names" with ultra-talented rosters, who can manage A-B-C and have good-to-excellent control of their clubhouses, but whose braindead decision making handcuffs their teams and runs them right out of October. Randy Choate was Matheny's Aaron Barrett. Leaving Kershaw in the 7th in games 1 and 4 was Mattingly's version of leaving Ross out there just long enough to cough up the lead. Matheny stuck with one of their veteran outfielders last year, can't remember who, for way too long, because "he's my guy." Mattingly's let Andre Ethier rot on the bench for years now in favor of big names like Carl Crawford, Yasiel Puig and Matt Kemp, whose droughts made Los Angeles look sodden. Sounds just like the Ian Desmond debacle this year.

Two superior managers in Bochy and Maddon could be there in October this year. Let's see if any of these three knucklehead Goliaths can simply overpower their way to victory thanks to their rosters, or will David have his way with them again. At least when Buck Showalter lets his pitchers live by their roles, when he brings in firemen he puts them in a place to succeed, as if he knows things like Yoenis Cespedes bats 100 points lower than Duda vs lefties.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #579 on: August 03, 2015, 01:07:11 am »
Is there any possible way of getting Papa Alou out of retirement? Too much young & stupid going on down there. Dugout needs some senior naps and deep besbol wisdom.

Offline aussienatsfan

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #580 on: August 03, 2015, 01:36:25 am »
bring back Jim Riggleman

Online varoadking

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #581 on: August 03, 2015, 01:47:03 am »
We're stuck with him thru 2016...don't have to like it...just have to get used to it...

Offline HattoriHanzo

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #582 on: August 03, 2015, 03:55:47 am »
We're stuck with him thru 2016...don't have to like it...just have to get used to it...

If old man Lerner wants to fire him he can just pay him off and sign someone else.   Sure there's been a ton of injuries, but the players that aren't injured not named Bryce Harper and Matt Scherzer have had average to terrible seasons.  Many have declined in season 2 under MW especially all of the ones you would expect to be playing lights out in a contract year.  Fister, JZimm, and Desi are flushing millions down the toilet with each passing game.  Unless any of them get red hot and the nats make the playoffs and they show that they are players that can play their best when it matters most, they won't be getting the contracts that they dreamed of having prior to this season.

Offline DCFan

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #583 on: August 03, 2015, 03:58:00 am »
We're stuck with him thru 2016...don't have to like it...just have to get used to it...

Managers get fired all the time with years on their contracts and I suspect it won't be any different with MW if we don't make the playoffs.

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #584 on: August 03, 2015, 07:13:45 am »
Agree

Managers get fired all the time with years on their contracts and I suspect it won't be any different with MW if we don't make the playoffs.

Online varoadking

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #585 on: August 03, 2015, 08:22:33 am »
Rizzo is not going to fire Williams before the 20116 season...under any circumstances...

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #586 on: August 03, 2015, 08:42:19 am »
Rizzo is not going to fire Williams before the 20116 season...under any circumstances...



 :shock:

Offline tomterp

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #587 on: August 03, 2015, 08:53:58 am »
Relievers innings pitched in the Mets series, with ERA for reference.

Roark     2.1      4.71
Barrett    2.2      3.72
Rivero     4.0      1.93
Janssen   0.2       2.74
Thornton   0.1     2.19

Did not pitch:

Storen           1.64
Papelbon        1.55

Online varoadking

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #588 on: August 03, 2015, 08:59:47 am »

 :shock:

Yes...he likes him THAT much...  :D

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #589 on: August 03, 2015, 09:03:22 am »
Relievers innings pitched in the Mets series, with ERA for reference.

Roark     2.1      4.71
Barrett    2.2      3.72
Rivero     4.0      1.93
Janssen   0.2       2.74
Thornton   0.1     2.19

Did not pitch:

Storen           1.64
Papelbon        1.55

Does Williams believing in rigidly defined roles really surprise anyone?

Offline Matugi

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #590 on: August 03, 2015, 09:06:02 am »
If the Nats don't even make it past the first round Matt will be fired.

Online varoadking

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #591 on: August 03, 2015, 09:06:52 am »
If the Nats don't even make it past the first round Matt will be fired.

 :hysterical:  No.

Offline Matugi

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #592 on: August 03, 2015, 09:09:31 am »

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #593 on: August 03, 2015, 09:15:15 am »
Relievers innings pitched in the Mets series, with ERA for reference.

Roark     2.1      4.71
Barrett    2.2      3.72
Rivero     4.0      1.93
Janssen   0.2       2.74
Thornton   0.1     2.19

Did not pitch:

Storen           1.64
Papelbon        1.55
It's a good thing Matt saved Storen and Paps on Friday--that sure worked out well.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #594 on: August 03, 2015, 09:17:47 am »
If the Nats don't even make it past the first round Matt will be fired.

how many managers does he get to blame before people look at his roster construction?

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #595 on: August 03, 2015, 09:18:38 am »
how many managers does he get to blame before people look at his roster construction?
That's up to the Lerners.

Offline Matugi

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #596 on: August 03, 2015, 09:22:02 am »
how many managers does he get to blame before people look at his roster construction?

I think Rizzo stays because there's a lot of good organizational depth.  The Nats will potentially have 6 top-50 prospects at the end of the season in Giolito, Turner, Ross, Lopez, Fedde, and Robles and then a couple of others just outside the top-50 such as Difo.

Online Kevrock

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #597 on: August 03, 2015, 09:28:14 am »
If the Nats don't even make it past the first round Matt will be fired.

Offline PebbleBall

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #598 on: August 03, 2015, 10:08:34 am »
:hysterical:  No.

I honestly think this is Williams' last season.  The Lerners won't pick up his option when they can hire another disposable manager

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Matt Williams! (2015)
« Reply #599 on: August 03, 2015, 10:11:11 am »
Danny Espinosa had one at-bat in the Mets series :lmao:

Sweet managing!