Offseason moves?

[WhiteWhale]

Not a chance. Matt Cain got $20 million for his FA years, no reason Zimmermann would take less than $18-19 and that's probably a team discount. if you add $8 and $12 for his final two arbitration years, you probably can tack on 4 years @ $20 as a rough estimate, so 6/$100? That would probably be a fair offer on both sides.

I think Rizzo wants to see another year of developmenet out of farm arms to see what kind of leverage he has before committing to this, because it is pretty straightforward and fair.

Problem is, waiting that year makes it harder to do the deal, So if Jordan, Giolito, Cole, Solis, and Purke aren't good enough to make Zimmerman expendable then the price just went up. If they are, then we trade him.  Rizzo is probably willing to hedge some more dollars against the collective development of that group.

[NJ Ave]

That's probably true. In fact, $100 million is probably fair regardless of the timing, as long as it ends in the same year. 6/$100 is probably fair this year, 5/$100 is probably fair after this season ($12 million for the final arb year and $22 million for 4 additional seasons after that). $100 million for 4 seasons would probably be fair when he finally reaches free agency, actually, but he'd probably take 5 or 6 years at a lower AAV at that point just to lock up the dollars.

There's a huge additional benefit to locking your young guys up to extensions, however. I'd much rather pay Zimmermann 6/$100 or whatever NOW for his age 28-33 seasons (maybe with a few team options years on the end) than be stuck in that trap where we face having to give him a 6/$120 million deal in two years that includes his age 34-35 seasons.

I'd try to avoid as many free agent deals as possible with 30-year old players, who seem to get the same number of years guaranteed as 28-year old players despite being closer to serious decline.

[DPMOmaha]

There is nothing in his case or in the team's history that suggests a real effort was made before he hit arbitration

Maybe not, but it's not a secret either that this team doesn't make moves out in the open.  I don't know what they have or haven't done, but the signs that the Nats may or may not have tried are similar to the ones that seem to indicate that Zimnn isn't in a hurry to work through it either.  Both sides play it pretty close to the vest, I don't really expect to hear about it until it happens, if it does.

[HalfSmokes]

Maybe not, but it's not a secret either that this team doesn't make moves out in the open.  I don't know what they have or haven't done, but the signs that the Nats may or may not have tried are similar to the ones that seem to indicate that Zimnn isn't in a hurry to work through it either.  Both sides play it pretty close to the vest, I don't really expect to hear about it until it happens, if it does.

have the nationals ever bought out free agency years prior to arbitration? The closest they came was Zimmerman, but even then, they signed it after he was arb eligible.

[Squab]

have the nationals ever bought out free agency years prior to arbitration? The closest they came was Zimmerman, but even then, they signed it after he was arb eligible.

I think they bought out Gio's?

[HalfSmokes]

I think they bought out Gio's?

he was arb eligible

[Squab]

he was arb eligible

Ah, I didn't read "prior to arbitration"

[DPMOmaha]

have the nationals ever bought out free agency years prior to arbitration? The closest they came was Zimmerman, but even then, they signed it after he was arb eligible.

IDK. They haven't had many players like JZim to make it worth the conversation.

[HalfSmokes]

IDK. They haven't had many players like JZim to make it worth the conversation.

the waited on Zimmerman, they waited on Desmond, Ramos doesn't have an extension. I'm not bothering to include relievers since they aren't worth extending or Strasburg or Harper since there is no reason to think they would even listen.

[nats4ever]

the waited on Zimmerman, they waited on Desmond, Ramos doesn't have an extension. I'm not bothering to include relievers since they aren't worth extending or Strasburg or Harper since there is no reason to think they would even listen.

Nationals can't sign everybody. What do you think a good farm system is for? Nationals have show to develop their own talent. Theirs players in the minors coming up who can contribute in the near future. Would you be happy if Rizzo was pulling a Dan Duequette? How about if Lerner were angelos? You'd be pissed. You can't have it both ways. Nationals don't have dodger money. Their are going to be sacrifices with signing to sign jordan zimm, desmond etc. Common sense says it's impossible to sign everybody. If you were competent you would think the lerners/rizzo are planning for down the line on what money they are going to spend on certain players. Think before you type.

[DPMOmaha]

the waited on Zimmerman, they waited on Desmond, Ramos doesn't have an extension. I'm not bothering to include relievers since they aren't worth extending or Strasburg or Harper since there is no reason to think they would even listen.

Right, the guy who no one thought was going to turn into an All-Star SS or the guy that can't stay healthy.  Not shocking those guys weren't signed before arbitration.  It might be an organizational philosophy, IDK, but they do everything else in the shadows.  Why would this be any different?

[Rasta]

If Zimmermann wants to hit free agency then he has earned that right.  We all wish guys like him would take a discount and sign early but that might not be the case with JZim. 

If Giolito is the kind of prospect that many scouts think he is then there's a good chance he'll be in the rotation by the start of the 2016 season.  Maybe they sign Fister to an extension instead of JZim.

The 16' rotation could be Stras, Gio, Fister, Little Gio and one of Cole, Jordan, Det, Roark, Solis or another pitcher picked up in FA or via trade. 

I'd love to see them lock up Desi in the near future. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Nats4Ever - It's not a question of "they can't sign everybody."  HS's point, and others, is they have not signed any system product before arbitration.  Many succesful franchises do this as a cost containment strategy.  TB comes to mind, but also Oakland and Boston.  Texas just did this Martin Perez.  It'll take a little research to check to see if ATL and St L do this as well. More or less, the best managed franchises all do this.  Even signing a guy in the early years of arbitration is often a good move (like we did with Gio and I think Zimmerman's first contract).  It saves you bucks to go out and perhaps overpay a bit for the last piece or two you need.

[shoeshineboy]

It also takes two to tango. The only reason to sign a guy to a long term deal early is because the savings is obviously huge given the financial risk. That has to balance with a player's desire to trade big money for security. Without knowing numbers floated by both sides and the gap between it is hard to criticize.

[Slateman]

It also takes two to tango. The only reason to sign a guy to a long term deal early is because the savings is obviously huge given the financial risk. That has to balance with a player's desire to trade big money for security. Without knowing numbers floated by both sides and the gap between it is hard to criticize.

Sometimes you can tango with more than two though

[mitlen]

Sometimes you can tango with more than two though

Uh oh

[shoeshineboy]

True and they should

[Mr Clean]

Anyone know the official start of spring training next year,  i.e. pitchers and catchers reporting?   Thanks.

[comish4lif]

Anyone know the official start of spring training next year,  i.e. pitchers and catchers reporting?   Thanks.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Washington+nationals+dates+spring+training

[Lintyfresh85]

It also takes two to tango. The only reason to sign a guy to a long term deal early is because the savings is obviously huge given the financial risk. That has to balance with a player's desire to trade big money for security. Without knowing numbers floated by both sides and the gap between it is hard to criticize.

Highly doubt the Nats have the only team in the MLB full of players that all want to take it through arbitration... while other well run teams in similar have no problems locking up young talent. Likely just poor business strategy on the Nats part.

[Terpfan76]

So, leaving WAR aside, what is so great about him that you move anyone for to get him? Why should we want to pursue him? I'm not suggesting we don need to upgrade 1b based upon last season, why Gardner though?

[Rasta]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 4m
Source confirms terms on #Dodgers’ deal with Howell as reported by @kengurnick: $11.25M/2 plus $6.25M vesting option. Deal not yet complete.

I can see why Rizzo traded for a LHR instead of handing out a 2 or 3 year deal for this kind of money or the deal that Boone Logan received.  I think Blevins will be fairly effective for a much lower cost.

[Rasta]

DP

[Lintyfresh85]

So, leaving WAR aside, what is so great about him that you move anyone for to get him? Why should we want to pursue him? I'm not suggesting we don need to upgrade 1b based upon last season, why Gardner though?

What is this about Gardner?

[Terpfan76]

What is this about Gardner?

Seems like there are some people advocating dealing for Gardner and moving Werth to first or some crap like that. Jst curious as to the fascination with Gardner.