Author Topic: Offseason moves? (Read 177075 times)

UMDNats · « **Reply #650 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:26:12 pm »

If the Nats trade for Price, that'd instantly be the best top 4 in baseball, and it wouldn't even be close. Wow.

mitlen · « **Reply #651 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:28:59 pm »

Quote from: UMDNats on October 06, 2013, 04:26:12 pm

If the Nats trade for Price, that'd instantly be the best top 4 in baseball, and it wouldn't even be close. Wow.

I think we're pretty well set but if Riz could pull off a Price deal not giving up too much. Man 'o man ....

HalfSmokes · « **Reply #652 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:30:08 pm »

Quote from: mitlen on October 06, 2013, 04:28:59 pm

I think we're pretty well set but if Riz could pull off a Price deal not giving up too much. Man 'o man ....

How exactly does one acquire one of the best pitchers in baseball without giving up too much?

mitlen · « **Reply #653 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:34:30 pm »

Quote from: HalfSmokes on October 06, 2013, 04:30:08 pm

How exactly does one acquire one of the best pitchers in baseball without giving up too much?

I don't know HS. I'm just dreaming.

KnorrForYourMoney · « **Reply #654 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:35:46 pm »

Yeah, let's get Cano and Price. It'll be really easy.

Yeesh, when did Nats fans become Yankees fans?

Vega · « **Reply #655 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:37:18 pm »

I'd guess that with their pitching depth, Tampa would want high quality major league ready position prospects, especially middle infield and maybe catcher. Who can we offer? Danny?

mitlen · « **Reply #656 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:37:24 pm »

Quote from: KnorrForYourMoney on October 06, 2013, 04:35:46 pm

Yeah, let's get Cano and Price. It'll be really easy.

Yeesh, when did Nats fans become Yankees fans?

I like JCA's thoughts on Price. I don't want Cano under any circumstances.

nobleisthyname · « **Reply #657 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:46:12 pm »

Quote from: Vega on October 06, 2013, 04:37:18 pm

I'd guess that with their pitching depth, Tampa would want high quality major league ready position prospects, especially middle infield and maybe catcher. Who can we offer? Danny?

Espinosa's stock is at its all-time low. JCA's post is intriguing, but I don't feel we have anywhere close to the number of bullets we'd actually need to get Price. Maybe I'm just turning into a pessimist; I also thought 7/210 would be "cheap" for Cano. I blame the LoD and the Nats' disappointing season.

Vega · « **Reply #658 on:** October 06, 2013, 04:59:26 pm »

Quote from: JCA-CrystalCity on October 06, 2013, 11:47:33 am

I hate to do too much trade speculation, but with the stories of Price being must trade guy for the Rays (e.g., this, I wonder if we would have the stuff to pull it off?

Looking over their roster, I'll assume Rodney walks and they try Crain at closer if his shoulder is OK, otherwise maybe Peralta or McGee. Joyce is under team control but is likely to make $4MM+. They also have a $6.5MM option on DeJesus (are we paying the buy-out). Let's say left is in flux and, in any case, they could use a righty bat there. Loney also can walk, and probably did enough to restore his value, so there is a hole at 1st. Yunel has two relatively cheap options, and Zo is under team control for $4.5MM (Ok, it's $7MM, but with a $2.5MM buy out) and $7MM for 2015 (with a $500K buy out). My thought is that the biggest every day holes are in left and 1st, with maybe a righty bat preference if they bring back Joyce or DeJesus.

They may or may not be interested in a rotation backfill for Price. They have Moore - Cobb - Archer - Hellickson, Odorizzi, and Alex Colome. Toss in Niemann if he's healthy and Alex Torres if they want to open a hole in the pen. Let's say then that they have a 1-2-3, with Hellickson at the back of the rotation and 3 decent arms contending for a slot. Maybe they would be interested in an MLB level guy who is a bit of a health gamble since they have minor league depth. Heck, let's say they may be would kick the tires on an MLB level guy who is a bit of a health gamble, who is a lefty, and a hard thrower who could be converted to the pen if depth or health pushes him out of the rotation.

With the roster holes and no obvious prospects off Durham for their biggest needs, maybe they would be as interested in MLB ready talent with some prospects to develop. To me, that maybe says start with Moore and Detwiler, maybe bullpen help (I'd consider Storen if it meant lower prospects), then add in a prospect or two. For that, you get two years of Price to go with Stras, Gio, and JZ, the Rays get a huge power bat at a corner spot, a guy who has had some great runs in MLB when healthy the past 3 years, and a quality, cheap closer all for about half of what Price would make next year.

You are severely overrating Det and Moore. Det can't stay healthy and Moore sucks. If Friedman was able to squeeze the Royals for that huge package for Shields, he's gonna ask for the moon for Price. (I know KC was desperate, but I still think that Price will demand at least as much as the Shields package if not more.)

mitlen · « **Reply #659 on:** October 06, 2013, 05:03:00 pm »

Quote from: Vega on October 06, 2013, 04:59:26 pm

You are severely overrating Det and Moore. Det can't stay healthy and Moore sucks. If Friedman was able to squeeze the Royals for that huge package for Shields, he's gonna ask for the moon for Price. (I know KC was desperate, but I still think that Price will demand at least as much as the Shields package if not more.)

The Det and Moore comment may be (unfortunately) true. Det is damaged and Moore hasn't proven himself in the bigs to justify any sort of value in a Price deal.

Makes me depressed again.

Vega · « **Reply #660 on:** October 06, 2013, 05:06:38 pm »

I'd guess that any Price package starts with Rendon, Cole, and Giolito. Toss in Storen and a B level prospect and you've got Price IMO.

varoadking · « **Reply #661 on:** October 06, 2013, 05:27:50 pm »

Quote from: Vega on October 06, 2013, 05:06:38 pm

I'd guess that any Price package starts with Rendon, Cole, and Giolito. Toss in Storen and a B level prospect and you've got Price IMO.

Then we pass...

mitlen · « **Reply #662 on:** October 06, 2013, 05:29:47 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on October 06, 2013, 05:27:50 pm

Then we pass...

I was skeptical even before Vera Ninja edited to add Storen.

Vega · « **Reply #663 on:** October 06, 2013, 05:35:08 pm »

Also in regards to JCA's post, Crain is a free agent after the season.

varoadking · « **Reply #664 on:** October 06, 2013, 05:41:21 pm »

Quote from: mitlen on October 06, 2013, 05:29:47 pm

I was skeptical even before Vera Ninja edited to add Storen.

Agreed...way too much for one guy that may or may not be there for you long term.

Vega · « **Reply #665 on:** October 06, 2013, 05:44:06 pm »

Quote from: varoadking on October 06, 2013, 05:41:21 pm

Agreed...way too much for one guy that may or may not be there for you long term.

That is the asking price for ace level pitchers. You also have to factor in Friedman's history as a very capable GM.

Slateman · « **Reply #666 on:** October 06, 2013, 06:02:39 pm »

Yes, I'm sure one of the best GMs in baseball will give away one of best starting pitchers in baseball for nothing.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #667 on:** October 06, 2013, 08:16:09 pm »

Quote from: Vega on October 06, 2013, 04:37:18 pm

I'd guess that with their pitching depth, Tampa would want high quality major league ready position prospects, especially middle infield and maybe catcher. Who can we offer? Danny?

I don't think with Escobar and Zobrist, and three of their best minor league position prospects (Hak Ju Lee, Tim Beckham, and another guy whose name escapes me) at MI, that MI is a position of need. Catcher and LF/1B would be position player needs.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #668 on:** October 06, 2013, 08:25:28 pm »

Quote from: Vega on October 06, 2013, 05:35:08 pm

Also in regards to JCA's post, Crain is a free agent after the season.

you are right about Crain.

Let's just say there's a difference of opinion about Det and Moore. Power like Moore's is tough to come by in a post-steroid era. He has that even if you think he is a .250 average. He's Middlebrooks. As for Det, I don't think I'm overrating a guy who throws 93+, is a lefty, and had ERAs of 3.00, 3.40, and 4.04 the past 3 years. Some advanced stats don't like him quite that much, but his fastball is very effective and would allow a conversion to a reliever if he does not work as a starter.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #669 on:** October 06, 2013, 08:28:30 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on October 06, 2013, 06:02:39 pm

Yes, I'm sure one of the best GMs in baseball will give away one of best starting pitchers in baseball for nothing.

OK. If you think Storen, Moore, and Detwiler are nothing, and Friedman thinks the same way, it does not work. If you think Moore is a solid power bat, Detwiler is a rotation gut capable of a sub-4 ERA when healthy, and Storen is a quality bullpen arm, then the deal is plausible.

Slateman · « **Reply #670 on:** October 06, 2013, 08:52:48 pm »

Quote from: JCA-CrystalCity on October 06, 2013, 08:28:30 pm

OK. If you think Storen, Moore, and Detwiler are nothing, and Friedman thinks the same way, it does not work. If you think Moore is a solid power bat, Detwiler is a rotation gut capable of a sub-4 ERA when healthy, and Storen is a quality bullpen arm, then the deal is plausible.

They got Wil Meyers for James Shields. Storen and Moore are nothing at this point. Detwiler is a number 4. Why the freak would they trade a top 10 pitcher in baseball for a number 4, a first baseman who will hit for some power and not much else, and a head case of a reliever?

And discussion about David Price would have to start with Anthony Rendon. Except they're pretty stocked at second and third base right now. Unless they're willing to live with Zobrist's mediocre bat in LF.

Moore is not an MLB starter at first base. Certainly not in the hitting heavy AL East. Detwiler is not a sub 4 ERA guy in the AL either. He's a number 5 on that team, if not a bullpen arm.

zimm_da_kid · « **Reply #671 on:** October 06, 2013, 09:12:52 pm »

It would take at least Cole and Goodwin PLUS another 2-3 guys from the leon/Solano/moore/detwiler/Espinosa/storen group.

JCA-CrystalCity · « **Reply #672 on:** October 06, 2013, 09:14:19 pm »

Slate, you may be right. I sort of don't think Moore and Det plus prospects would work, and I'm not sure Storen is that much in addition. It does fill Rays needs and saves money. I think you underrate Det, too, but i agree that past results in the NL are not necessarily predictive of future results in the AL East.

Vega · « **Reply #673 on:** October 06, 2013, 09:16:08 pm »

Quote from: zimm_da_kid on October 06, 2013, 09:12:52 pm

It would take at least Cole and Goodwin PLUS another 2-3 guys from the leon/Solano/moore/detwiler/Espinosa/storen group.

Didn't Goodwin play like ass this year ?

Slateman · « **Reply #674 on:** October 06, 2013, 10:18:27 pm »

Quote from: JCA-CrystalCity on October 06, 2013, 09:14:19 pm

Slate, you may be right. I sort of don't think Moore and Det plus prospects would work, and I'm not sure Storen is that much in addition. It does fill Rays needs and saves money. I think you underrate Det, too, but i agree that past results in the NL are not necessarily predictive of future results in the AL East.

We don't have any prospects that are worth anything. Goodwin played like ass and everyone else is still a long term project, or 4/5 starter material, and the Rays just won't be interested in a lot of that.

The Rays are going to want a corner outfielder, a first base bat, or a shortstop who is better than Escobar. We don't have any of those to spare right now. The Rays will still contend next year, so the idea of trading Price when they have him under team control through 2015 is kind of absurd.

Quote from: zimm_da_kid on October 06, 2013, 09:12:52 pm

It would take at least Cole and Goodwin PLUS another 2-3 guys from the leon/Solano/moore/detwiler/Espinosa/storen group.

All of those combined doesn't get us Price this offseason.