Offseason moves?

[Mattionals]

I think Cole's ceiling is higher, but Lee is more refined at this point, especially with his offspeed pitches.

What I'm saying is that in order to get Kenderick, we'd have to start a deal with Cole and probably one of our outfield prospects. I'm not opposed, I'm just saying that's where it would have to start. I also don't think Kenderick is quite that good. 2011 seems to be an outlier. Is he really worth one B+ prospect and another B-/C+??

If we were to trade for him, I'd rather wait until we've effectively eliminated Espinosa from being able to play second base. Frankly, if we get 2011 Espinosa hitting back, he's a better player than Kenderick. And cheaper. And under team control longer. Also with a move like that, Rizzo would have to give up on Laroche and move Zimmerman to first. Which means swallowing his pride with Laroche and essentially admitting a mistake with the Zimmerman contract. Neither of those seem likely to me.

So Kendrick has a team friendly contract and a career wRC+ of 105.  Cut out his first year, 08 and 10 and you have an above average bat at 2nd base.  Danny has a career wRC+ of 90.  Sure he is younger by 4 years and could "put it all together", but I think the organization has soured so much on him that he is essentially a non option at the MLB level.  Kendrick is a decent upgrade and it allows Rendon to move back to his natural position of 3B.

I agree that some pride swallowing must be done on the LaRoche deal, but I don't think moving Zim to first makes his deal bad.  If Zim continues his current trends, you have a 25 HR, .280 AVG, 80 RBI bat at 3B with a wRC+ of right around 120.  The case can be made that without the ill effects of being a third baseman and moving to a less demanding position, his production could see a rise.  He has to worry less about fielding and can just go out there and hit.  If he raises himself to a 30 HR, .290 AVG, 90 RBI with a wRC+ of 130, he becomes a very cheap 1st baseman with top 5-10 credentials.

[sph274]

Who?  Taylor Lindsey?

yea and the guy they got in the alberto callaspo trade is ranked highly. Grant Green

[Slateman]

So Kendrick has a team friendly contract and a career wRC+ of 105.  Cut out his first year, 08 and 10 and you have an above average bat at 2nd base.  Danny has a career wRC+ of 90.  Sure he is younger by 4 years and could "put it all together", but I think the organization has soured so much on him that he is essentially a non option at the MLB level.  Kendrick is a decent upgrade and it allows Rendon to move back to his natural position of 3B.

I agree that some pride swallowing must be done on the LaRoche deal, but I don't think moving Zim to first makes his deal bad.  If Zim continues his current trends, you have a 25 HR, .280 AVG, 80 RBI bat at 3B with a wRC+ of right around 120.  The case can be made that without the ill effects of being a third baseman and moving to a less demanding position, his production could see a rise.  He has to worry less about fielding and can just go out there and hit.  If he raises himself to a 30 HR, .290 AVG, 90 RBI with a wRC+ of 130, he becomes a very cheap 1st baseman with top 5-10 credentials.

We keep saying that his production will rise ... I don't see how. I think this is what he is. a .275-.285 hitter with 20-25 homer potential. That's great at third, that's painfully average at first. And he still has health concerns.

yea and the guy they got in the alberto callaspo trade is ranked highly. Grant Green

Green is an outfielder, unless the A's have moved him back to the middle infield. Green could be MLB ready. Lindsey is not. I think they'll keep Kenderick unless given an MLB ready starting pitcher.

[sph274]

Green is an outfielder, unless the A's have moved him back to the middle infield. Green could be MLB ready. Lindsey is not. I think they'll keep Kenderick unless given an MLB ready starting pitcher.

they moved him to second. he is prob their starter next year if they trade kendrick.

[Slateman]

they moved him to second. he is prob their starter next year if they trade kendrick.

Comes off as more of a super utility type.

[Mattionals]

I think the Angels have already conceded that they want to move Kendrick for pitching, which means they are happy to promote Green to play 2B everyday.  As for Zim, I think partly his health concerns are related to him being a 3B.  Moving him to 1B means he doesn't have to worry about his size as much.  I'm mindfacting here, but Zim is a pretty big guy, and even at 3B he might be a bit too big.  I think he has a pretty ideal size for a first baseman, and lessen his throwing role and he can focus on hitting.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

The article in NJ talking to RZ mentioned something Blue picked up on: he was not able to do his heavy lifting last winter due to the shoulder surgery.  That, and the residual effects of the surgery, from which he would still be recovering into June or July, per the article, makes me expect a huge bounce back in his offense.  It might even be enough to carry first base.  There I would expect his glove to be a big plus.  Even with all the errors this year, it was his arm and not his hands.  That said, I'd be OK with going into the spring with him at 3d, Rendon at 2d, and maybe T-Mo at first or in a
<----------
with ALR or Skole.  If RZ can't hack it after a couple of months, then a midseason move to first, with Skole either taking over at 3d or some replacement 2d baseman like perhaps Walters would be acceptable.

Kendrick would be nice.  He developed into a pretty good defensive secondbaseman (not his reputation early in his career).  It would be an interesting move to pick him up for pitching and to perhaps sign a Choo to get another OBP guy.  Choo really can't play CF, so Harper or Werth would have to move back there.  All of a sudden, that becomes a killer batting order.  It is just really a question of whether we try to find another Gio type trade and use the trading chits for a 4th horse for the rotation, like the Tigers, or we try to lengthen the batting order by the infield shuffle.

[Slateman]

I'm not okay with Tyler Moore at first.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

He has enormous power.  He's hit for power everywhere.  Power hitters are rhythm hitters. Play him every day and he'll hit for you.  I can live with the Ks if he hits 30 HRs.

[DPMOmaha]

Choo would be cool, but with Span having a second half closer to what we all thought he'd be when he came over here, I don't see him not in CF and at the top of the lineup next year.  I'd get on board a LaR/Moore platoon at 1B.  Those really aren't our problems, though. We need bench depth, a stronger pen to match up with Atlanta's and more organizational starting pitching depth.  Those areas are significantly more important than Span or LaR, IMO.

[Slateman]

Choo would be cool, but with Span having a second half closer to what we all thought he'd be when he came over here, I don't see him not in CF and at the top of the lineup next year.  I'd get on board a LaR/Moore platoon at 1B.  Those really aren't our problems, though. We need bench depth, a stronger pen to match up with Atlanta's and more organizational starting pitching depth.  Those areas are significantly more important than Span or LaR, IMO.

I'll be honest, Span in CF is a massive defensive improvement over Choo. In fact, if we got Choo, he should play a corner and Bryce should play in center.

I agree about the pen. Perhaps not so much  a stronger pen, but a more confident one. It's obvious that there is talent. Soriano wasn't a one hit wonder, he had good numbers over the last three or four seasons. His velocity is also in line with what he's done the last three or four seasons.

I think the bullpen centers around Storen and Mattheus. Both have had poor 2013 seasons after pretty good 2012 seasons. Storen especially. As much as I like him as a person and I think he could be a good pitcher, I think the Nationals have to trade him, for the simple fact that he is not going to stick around. He's Super 2 eligible but won't be a FA until 2017. If we can get a good half season from him next year, he should have high trade value. Heck, I think a team like the Tigers may take a shot on him this winter.

I wouldn't mind dropping Soriano or Storen for Gas Can or O'Flaherty.

The bench depth is there, we just have to be willing to use them. Lombo, Hariston, Perez, Brown . . . take your pick.

I don't want Moore platooning. He's obviously not comfortable when he doesn't get regular at bats. Either play him consistently or send him to Triple A. Or trade him.

[HalfSmokes]

I think the pen is just going to have to work itself out- I'm not a big fan of huge reliever acquisitions- they seem to blow up as often as not.
I want span gone, but I'm not a huge Choo fan- I think we're stuck with span
I really want LaRoche gone- Morales would be my choice.

[TigerFan]

Slate I like the Storen analysis and I agree he would be a great piece in Detroit where the pen is shaky.  Tigers minor league system is pretty depleted but they have tradable pieces and draft picks.  I'm not sure what Nats management is most into. 

[DPMOmaha]

I'd keep Storen, Clippard and Stammen.  I'd add O'Flaherty and Downs, the rest can battle it out for the rest of the spots.  I like Krol.  Find some flame throwers.  I'd prefer to move Soriano, don't expect it, though. 

[monkeyhit]

Slate I like the Storen analysis and I agree he would be a great piece in Detroit where the pen is shaky.  Tigers minor league system is pretty depleted but they have tradable pieces and draft picks.  I'm not sure what Nats management is most into.

He'll fit right in. 

[Mattionals]

Any idea about singing Granderson?  Put him at 1B?

[Slateman]

Has Span's late season surge changed anyone's mind about him?

[DPMOmaha]

I've assumed he'll be in CF through next year the whole time.  He's pretty low on my concern level, at least for next year.

[sph274]

Has Span's late season surge changed anyone's mind about him?

maybe it was eckstein? idk, unless we are gonna go big and sign ellsbury, we should prob stay away from guys like granderson. i wouldnt mind carlos beltran at 1b/lf.

[HalfSmokes]

I'm more concerned about first base, center field is a position where I don't care nearly as much about offensive production

[Slateman]

Not sure what we can do until we determine if Zimmerman will need another surgery and if he'll be able to work out in the offseason

[imref]

Not sure what we can do until we determine if Zimmerman will need another surgery and if he'll be able to work out in the offseason

If you saw yesterday's second game, you'll know that Zimm is fine.

As I posted on another thread, he plays 3B at the same locations as Polanco,  I didn't see him playing any more shallow (they both hug the IF grass when there's a LF hitter with speed batting though).

[imref]

Has Span's late season surge changed anyone's mind about him?

I am not at all worried about Span.  Our biggest concerns IMHO are in the bullpen.  I don't think we're going to move LaRoche.  I expect at this point you'll see the same starting lineup you saw the last 2 months, with probably the same bench except for Tracy.

[RobDibblesGhost]

We need to find a good backup catcher.  I don't think Solano is the answer.

[DPMOmaha]

If you saw yesterday's second game, you'll know that Zimm is fine.

Well, I'll need to see more than one throw before I'll go there.  It was encouraging, though.  I was a band nerd in high school and when we'd finally hit our routine, our director would always tell us to do it again. Anyone can get lucky and do it right once, but if you can do it again, we're onto something.  That's where I'm at with Zim.  Hopefully that throw helped clear the mental block.  Would be big if yes.