Washington Redskins thread (2013)

[Terpfan76]

Actually I have a different version and better of it.   

you sir are correct.

[Slateman]

I don't think there's any way you can conclusively say that. Is he behind in that aspect? Yes, that is clear but to think he can't learn these things is silly. Making reads and going through progressions along with footwork/mechanics are things that can be taught or improved. I also question this notion that his teammates don't care for him or that he'll demand Cousins be traded. With the work ethic and amount of work that was needed to come back so soon from that injury, there's no reason to think he won't put in the same sort of effort to improve his other skills.
Like I said, I want him to be the guy and become a star but if he doesn't cut and its Cousins that takes us to the promised land, who gives a freak? Bad trade? Who freaking cares if we end up winning? I want a Super Bowl win and I couldn't care less and if it's Griffin, Cousins or Trent freaking Dilfer that gets us there.

He's extremely behind. And QBs like Griffin simply do not succeed in the NFL. The closest is Cam Newton and is developing more as a passer. We'll see with Griffin, but trying to mold him to a system instead of molding a system to him is asking for failure.

[spidernat]

I feel for you guys. I was around for all 3 SB wins. The last one was especially fun because I was old enough to enjoy the after game festivities in the streets of Georgetown. I also remember how freaked up it felt when they got smashed by the Raiders in SB 18.

I recently apologized to my nephews for having inherited such a woeful franchise. 

[spidernat]

He's extremely behind. And QBs like Griffin simply do not succeed in the NFL. The closest is Cam Newton and is developing more as a passer. We'll see with Griffin, but trying to mold him to a system instead of molding a system to him is asking for failure.

Last year's system is not going to cut it for the long haul.

[Slateman]

Last year's system is not going to cut it for the long haul.

Right. And it's going to take Griffin a while to learn a real NFL system. It's going to require him to learn all the things that QBs learn in HS and perfect in college. And he has to learn them in the offseason and pre-season.

[Terpfan76]

I feel for you guys. I was around for all 3 SB wins. The last one was especially fun because I was old enough to enjoy the after game festivities in the streets of Georgetown. I also remember how freaked up it felt when they got smashed by the Raiders in SB 18.

I recently apologized to my nephews for having inherited such a woeful franchise. 

Yeah, I'll soon be 37 so I remember '87 & '91 quite well and '82-83 somewhat. I wasn't old enough to party, well, I didn't care about it at the time but I loved watching that team in '91. It has to be one of the most underrated championship teams in NFL history.

[spidernat]

Right. And it's going to take Griffin a while to learn a real NFL system. It's going to require him to learn all the things that QBs learn in HS and perfect in college. And he has to learn them in the offseason and pre-season.

If Kubiak is here next season then the transition is smoother. I bet they use similar terminology and the systems are almost identical (Kubiak is more "classic" west coast and doesn't throw the deep ball as often as Kyle likes to).

[Smithian]

Because he clearly can't run an actual offense. RGIII being able to move or not move has nothing to do with it. He simply does not have the innate skills a QB develops as a pocket passer. He doesn't make pre-snap reads. He doesn't read defensive development. He doesn't work through progressions and receiver route trees. He is not an NFL QB. He is an option QB that got away with it last year because of the Pistol wrinkle formation. This season, defenses have adjusted. Hence why Kapernick got off to such a poor start. Once he started developing more pocket awareness and ability, the 49ers offense started to click.

So you basically write off a second year QB with a terrible supporting cast before complimenting the growth in a third year QB on a team that almost won the Super Bowl last season? We'll have to disagree then.

[Smithian]

it is crazy that so many people have already given up on RGIII fir Kirk Cousins, the starter of two whole games in the NFL with more turnovers than TD passes.

It's shtick for some of this board.

[Smithian]

We should just trade RGIII and Cousins for a ton of picks and just let Rex Grossman throw balls up for grabs and see how that works out.

Grossman as a QB for the Skins could load up on yardage, move the ball between the 20's, but then had bad turnovers and the offense never really finished the deal.

[Smithian]

Cooley again said today the prevailing wisdom is that Shanahan returns next year but with new coordinators.

Even if Kyle "found a new opportunity" and Mike hired Kubiak as OC and then hired a stud DC like Rex Ryan or Jim Schwartz  (doubt either is fired at this point) I'd still be relatively depressed about Shanahan returning. It would just be worse next season

[Smithian]

Cousins definitely can be a starter in the NFL, no question about it, but I'd rather not give up on a guy we traded three first round picks for after his second year. If this year repeats itself next year, the Redskins might possibly have made one of the worst trades of all time.

Sanity!!!

[GburgNatsFan]

Agreed. I'd rather Shanny get shipped out, get a player/personnel GM, and name Kyle head coach. The things Washington is terrible at are head coach things, not OC things.

Even if Kyle "found a new opportunity" and Mike hired Kubiak as OC and then hired a stud DC like Rex Ryan or Jim Schwartz  (doubt either is fired at this point) I'd still be relatively depressed about Shanahan returning. It would just be worse next season

[mitlen]

So you basically write off a second year QB with a terrible supporting cast before complimenting the growth in a third year QB on a team that almost won the Super Bowl last season?

I must have missed that.

[HalfSmokes]

Agreed. I'd rather Shanny get shipped out, get a player/personnel GM, and name Kyle head coach. The things Washington is terrible at are head coach things, not OC things.

agreed to an extent. I think the problems all come back to the draft and Shanny's inability to get much out of it- he's hit on his first rounders- good- he's supposed to, but outside of that there are far more misses than hits. Going back to 2010, Williams and Perry Riley are the only starters, 2011 Kerrigan and Jenkins are your starters, 2012 RGIII and Morris, 2013 Reed (i'm going by http://www.redskins.com/team/depth-chart.html). That is absolutely pathetic- over four drafts, he has 7 starters- and this isn't a team so awash in talent that a young player has no chance of breaking through.

[GburgNatsFan]

Clock mis-management flabergasts me. Shanny seems to mis-manage the clock and game situations more than any head coach I've ever watched. Except Zorn.

agreed to an extent. I think the problems all come back to the draft and Shanny's inability to get much out of it- he's hit on his first rounders- good- he's supposed to, but outside of that there are far more misses than hits. Going back to 2010, Williams and Perry Riley are the only starters, 2011 Kerrigan and Jenkins are your starters, 2012 RGIII and Morris, 2013 Reed (i'm going by http://www.redskins.com/team/depth-chart.html). That is absolutely pathetic- over four drafts, he has 7 starters- and this isn't a team so awash in talent that a young player has no chance of breaking through.

[HalfSmokes]

Clock mis-management flabergasts me. Shanny seems to mis-manage the clock and game situations more than any head coach I've ever watched. Except Zorn.

andy reed is awful at that and he routinely had his team deep in the playoffs. I think some of that is on the QB- they are capable of clocking the ball and calling time outs and a lot does matter- needing a final drive means that you were unable to put the game away in the other 58 minutes and it's down to a toss up

[Smithian]

I must have missed that.

The 49ers lost by 3. It was a good game after a big second half comeback.

[mitlen]

The 49ers lost by 3. It was a good game after a big second half comeback.

My bad.   I thought you were referring to the 'skins when you wrote "almost won the Super Bowl last season".    I was projecting too much homer fan into your comment.   

[spidernat]

and name Kyle head coach.

If Rex Ryan gets canned it could be fanboi Snyder's wet dream to hire Kubiak as OC and Ryan as DC with Shanahan staying as HC. That's the type of move he longs for. Although I do like Ryan as DC. He seems to have a good eye for defensive personnel.

[spidernat]

I think some of that is on the QB- they are capable of clocking the ball and calling time outs

I find it frustrating that in today's NFL QB's seem incapable of managing the clock. And not just the young QB's. Even veteran QB's seem clueless as to when to call timeouts. Old school QB's always handled this type of thing efficiently. This may have a lot to do with the way QB's are treated coming up the ranks where HC/OC's want to control everything that happens between the lines. They are too dependent on their coaches to tell them what to and when to do it. It's laughable to think of the likes of Unitas, Kelly, Monatana or Marino looking to the sidelines for signals from the coach as to how to adjust to a defensive alignment.

[GburgNatsFan]

Let's not forget last year's offensive performances. Would Kyle have left Griffin in to get his knee blown up? No. Would Kyle force a DC to run the wrong defense for the personnel? No.

Take personnel away from the HC, help him hire an OC, and I think he would do pretty well. He'd learn and adjust.

But what the hell do I know.

If Rex Ryan gets canned it could be fanboi Snyder's wet dream to hire Kubiak as OC and Ryan as DC with Shanahan staying as HC. That's the type of move he longs for. Although I do like Ryan as DC. He seems to have a good eye for defensive personnel.

[PC]

This would be a terrible time to go out and try to get a head coach with a team in this much disarray.  None of the good options would want to come here so you're stuck with the Jim Zorns of the world.

[Slateman]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1891163-rgiiis-stubbornness-and-his-fathers-interference-bedevil-shanahan-redskins

Shanahan is the master troll

[Terpfan76]

If Rex Ryan gets canned it could be fanboi Snyder's wet dream to hire Kubiak as OC and Ryan as DC with Shanahan staying as HC. That's the type of move he longs for. Although I do like Ryan as DC. He seems to have a good eye for defensive personnel.

Agreed on Ryan.