Author Topic: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact  (Read 251837 times)

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Offline NJ Ave

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #900 on: February 09, 2014, 08:56:07 pm »
Well if they've been pocketing it for years... it does call into question some of the lean early years... which I assume Spider was referring to.

I think it's generally accepted nowadays that it's stupid if you're a 60 win team to spend a bunch of money to win 70 games. You waste money, lower your draft position, etc. The Lerners didn't do that, but since we've become competitive for the postseason they've spent every dollar necessary to compete for championships.

Besides a backup catcher. LAC!

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #901 on: February 10, 2014, 07:57:07 am »
The Lerners didn't do that, but since we've become competitive for the postseason they've spent every dollar necessary to compete for championships.


Sweet,  when did they announce the desmond extension? 

Offline imref

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #902 on: February 10, 2014, 08:04:44 am »
Besides a backup catcher. LAC!

Hopefully we get Nieto back.

Offline Slateman

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #903 on: February 10, 2014, 08:47:25 am »
Anyone know how much MLB was paying the Nats because of this deal?

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #904 on: February 10, 2014, 09:01:11 am »
Anyone know how much MLB was paying the Nats because of this deal?

The guy who wrote the article refused to even speculate and the team gave a no comment.

I'd speculate that the league is allowing the Nats to keep the $10 million per year that they owe in revenue sharing.

Offline comish4lif

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #905 on: February 10, 2014, 10:42:13 am »
The guy who wrote the article refused to even speculate and the team gave a no comment.

I'd speculate that the league is allowing the Nats to keep the $10 million per year that they owe in revenue sharing.
I'm curious if the other MLB clubs knew this before last week. I'd be surprised to hear that other clubs knew and were OK with it. I would think that a free loan from MLB would prompt the clubs to lean on Bud and the 3 team arbitration panel to settle the mess....

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #906 on: February 10, 2014, 11:44:24 am »
I'm curious if the other MLB clubs knew this before last week. I'd be surprised to hear that other clubs knew and were OK with it. I would think that a free loan from MLB would prompt the clubs to lean on Bud and the 3 team arbitration panel to settle the mess....

I suspect that the other owners are very aware of all of the details of the MASN negotiations.

Offline wj73

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #907 on: February 10, 2014, 11:47:27 am »
I'm curious if the other MLB clubs knew this before last week. I'd be surprised to hear that other clubs knew and were OK with it. I would think that a free loan from MLB would prompt the clubs to lean on Bud and the 3 team arbitration panel to settle the mess....

The threat to the other teams is that a lawsuit could force MLB to open its books.  I think the owners want to avoid any public disclosure of their true financial status, and may well feel that the hush money is a small price to pay.  I think Bud and the arbitration panel know that however it's decided, one or the other team will file a suit or otherwise kick up a fuss.  The status quo seems to work for everyone right about now. 

It’s a perfect backroom deal.  Angelos is happy because he doesn’t have to pay any extra and he gets to keep his books closed, the Lerners are happy because they’re getting a payment that reflects something near the value they’d get if they were free of the MASN agreement, the other owners are happy because there’s no messy court battle and possible ugly financial disclosures about how much they’re really making, and Bud is happy because he can retire without ever having to resolve this issue. 

Offline Smithian

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #908 on: February 10, 2014, 11:51:43 am »
I've come to conclusion this slice of pie will never be attained by the Nationals.

With exploding television deals across the league it hurts to be stuck with this crap.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #909 on: February 10, 2014, 12:32:01 pm »
Sweet,  when did they announce the desmond extension? 

February 2015.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #910 on: February 11, 2014, 01:42:48 pm »
Quote
@SportsMoneyBlog: Ted Lerner has refinanced over $200 million of debt for Washington Nationals.

Offline PC

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #911 on: February 11, 2014, 01:47:47 pm »
Sweet,  when did they announce the desmond extension? 

In two weeks.

Offline imref

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #912 on: February 11, 2014, 01:51:28 pm »

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #913 on: February 11, 2014, 01:54:27 pm »
Poor old man Lerner, only able to pay off 60% of the team after seven years of ownership, that MASN deal is so brutal.

Offline tomterp

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #914 on: February 16, 2014, 09:15:57 pm »
Poor old man Lerner, only able to pay off 60% of the team after seven years of ownership, that MASN deal is so brutal.

"refinance" doesn't imply paid off, in fact to the contrary, it means a new debt agreement, presumably on better terms given increases in value of the franchise (collateral) and the low interest rate environment.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #915 on: February 16, 2014, 09:56:53 pm »
"refinance" doesn't imply paid off, in fact to the contrary, it means a new debt agreement, presumably on better terms given increases in value of the franchise (collateral) and the low interest rate environment.

Big assumption, but if he refinanced $200 million i'm guessing that hes paid off $250 million.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #916 on: February 16, 2014, 09:59:34 pm »
Big assumption, but if he refinanced $200 million i'm guessing that hes paid off $250 million.

Maybe, or maybe he's pulling out equity, no way to know which

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #917 on: February 16, 2014, 10:13:21 pm »
Maybe, or maybe he's pulling out equity, no way to know which

If he's pulling out equity that would mean that he had paid off more than 60% and was increasing his debt, a pretty good sign that he's somehow managing to pay off the interest and still reduce his debt by about $30 million per year despite the MASN deal.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #918 on: February 16, 2014, 10:21:24 pm »
Or that the team has appreciated in value at a faster rate than interest on the original note-taking again,  no way to know

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #919 on: February 16, 2014, 10:26:19 pm »
Or that the team has appreciated in value at a faster rate than interest on the original note-taking again,  no way to know

How does appreciation matter until the resale? The report said refinanced, so $200 would be the total debt as opposed to a 2nd mortgage.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #920 on: February 16, 2014, 11:59:13 pm »
The tweet (report is a stretch)  says he refinanced $200 million,  that could easily mean he took out a new debt worth $200 million -  again,  we'll never know- it's not like the nats file accounting reports with the sec

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #921 on: February 17, 2014, 07:21:25 am »
The tweet (report is a stretch)  says he refinanced $200 million,  that could easily mean he took out a new debt worth $200 million -  again,  we'll never know- it's not like the nats file accounting reports with the sec

A Tweet is a report, no less than a blog entry or article, Forbes put their name on it.

As far as the numbers go, sure it is impossible to be certain unless the Nats open their books (or they get leaked), but $30 million per year pulled out of the team matches up nicely with the numbers that were being released years ago when the Nats were ranked at the top of the league in operating profits. That was what fed the Lerners are cheap accusations, winning teams were pulling out much less money, content to profit from increasing the franchise value rather than combining revenue sharing with low salaries to fill their bank accounts. I remember Stan Kasten claiming that the money they weren't spending in 2007 and 2008 would be available later when the team improved, yet somehow they have managed to pull a quarter billion dollars out of this team without winning a single playoff series.

They are a much better team then they were five years ago and the payroll is much higher, go deep in the playoffs and I'll be happy, but I'm not going to excuse them for not doing everything it takes to win based on the MASN deal after they've used this team as a money machine for the past nine years.

Offline tomterp

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #922 on: February 17, 2014, 12:55:15 pm »
Big assumption, but if he refinanced $200 million i'm guessing that hes paid off $250 million.

He paid $450m for the team, right?  I'm pretty sure there was some cash up front for that, he couldn't borrow the whole $450m.

But sure, they've probably pared down the debt somewhat.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #923 on: February 17, 2014, 01:05:02 pm »
He paid $450m for the team, right?  I'm pretty sure there was some cash up front for that, he couldn't borrow the whole $450m.

But sure, they've probably pared down the debt somewhat.

Good point, I can't remember the numbers, but most of the $450 was financed. Another thing that we don't know is how much cash has been pulled out over the years that was not used to pay off the debt. Mark Lerner could be paying himself an eight figure salary.

Offline tomterp

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #924 on: February 17, 2014, 01:07:07 pm »
Good point, I can't remember the numbers, but most of the $450 was financed. Another thing that we don't know is how much cash has been pulled out over the years that was not used to pay off the debt. Mark Lerner could be paying himself an eight figure salary.

I think bidders had to put $100m down.  Mindfact.