Author Topic: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact  (Read 251320 times)

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Offline NJ Ave

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1000 on: February 28, 2014, 02:40:32 pm »
Forbes places a value of $266M on the "market" of the Nationals. So $300M is a reasonable ballpark of what Baltimore should be compensated for losing the DC market.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1001 on: February 28, 2014, 02:54:36 pm »
There revenue was only 19 million less than the nats because of the structure of MASN- in 2012, their equity payment was $48-50 million while the nats got $7-7.3 million. Most of MASN's territory logically should go to the Nats if they split- definitely DC and NOVA, probably Montgomery and PG too- that's most of the 'local' rights fees for MASN. The rest of Virginia and NC would probably go to DC too since it would look absurd to have a little DC island in a see of Os territory. Put them on their own, and they look a lot more like Cleveland or Cincinnati than they do like a well off mid atlantic team. They are in a division with a new york team and a Toronto team and a team representing all of new England- absent laying claim to the DC market, they'd have the same financial disadvantages any small market team faces. As it stands, they can field a team with a competitive payroll and pull a profit.

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1002 on: February 28, 2014, 02:57:42 pm »
...in the meantime this thread was launched more than two years ago (19th January 2012) and is up to 41 pages...and the situation is not one micron closer to resolution.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1003 on: February 28, 2014, 03:06:15 pm »
In no way is $20 million is a fair number, considering that's 66% less than is currently being generated, and when MASN is basically 100% available and extremely profitable.


I don't disagree that given MASN's current model, if they were to split the income 50/50, it could be in the 60 million range.  (Whether 50/50 or whatever the split is, is fair or not, is a whole other topic).  I just question how long a gravy train based on collecting money from people who don't watch the game will last.

I also differ in opinion that MASN is very crappily run.  They have managed to get carried just about everywhere.  Part of that was luck of timing, in that they launched before a big backlash against RSN carriage fees started gaining momentum, and also they had the government's help in forcing Comcast to carry them everywhere.  I don't know that Fox or Comcast could get away with launching a new channel with a higher carriage fee in the $3-$4 range right now across the whole territory.  Nor do I think they could get away with increasing the fee on their current channels by that much.  One of those things would be necessary to pay out a 80 million dollar deal. 

My overall feeling about this is  that if they can get in the neighborhood of 60 mill/year from MASN (vs a promised 80-100 million from Comcast or whoever), that is probably a pretty good deal all in all for us as baseball fans and cable subscribers. 

NJ Ave, one point about your calculations above.  I don't think they account for the 34% revenue sharing of local tv.  I think that agreement handles the profit from the equity stake as well to deal with YES, NESN, etc.  I have no idea how they would calculate revenue sharing on the Nats/Os mess though.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1004 on: February 28, 2014, 08:40:58 pm »
There revenue was only 19 million less than the nats because of the structure of MASN- in 2012, their equity payment was $48-50 million while the nats got $7-7.3 million. Most of MASN's territory logically should go to the Nats if they split- definitely DC and NOVA, probably Montgomery and PG too- that's most of the 'local' rights fees for MASN. The rest of Virginia and NC would probably go to DC too since it would look absurd to have a little DC island in a see of Os territory. Put them on their own, and they look a lot more like Cleveland or Cincinnati than they do like a well off mid atlantic team. They are in a division with a new york team and a Toronto team and a team representing all of new England- absent laying claim to the DC market, they'd have the same financial disadvantages any small market team faces. As it stands, they can field a team with a competitive payroll and pull a profit.

Again, it's not the Nats job to make Baltimore NOT Baltimore. It's their job to fairly compensate Peter Angelos for him losing some territory in order to form the Nats. They have the Rays in their division, so it's tough to sell them being somehow killed because they only take in $20 million more in revenue than the Rays.

If Baltimore wants to stop getting compared to Cincinnati or Cleveland, stop being Baltimore.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1005 on: February 28, 2014, 08:51:02 pm »
Or they could challenge baseballs antitrust exemption which is costing them close to a billion dollars over 30 years. Probably in baseballs best interest to avoid that.

 Baseball might already lose it to San Jose, in which case territorial rights become meaningless.

Offline tomterp

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1006 on: March 01, 2014, 05:43:19 pm »
Forbes places a value of $266M on the "market" of the Nationals. So $300M is a reasonable ballpark of what Baltimore should be compensated for losing the DC market.

Though it was never Baltimore's market to begin with.  They asked permission to market to DC fans, and permission was granted, but their charter defines their market.  They were just using it for a while since nobody else was.

Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1007 on: March 22, 2014, 08:28:08 am »
Well I feel a little bit better since I just read that the Dodgers' new network is being carried by only one cable provider and is therefore only available to about 32 percent of the LA market. Houston's been fighting a similar battle - their games are only available to about 40% of their market. At least we don't have that issue anymore.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1008 on: March 22, 2014, 12:56:57 pm »
Just got an email advertising tickets to see the Nats in Baltimore, wonder if Os season ticket holders are getting emails inviting them down to DC. I did note that their prices are a bit more reasonable than down here.

Anyone up for a road trip? Sux that the two games are on weekdays.

Offline Dave301

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1009 on: April 04, 2014, 11:00:09 pm »
http://natsinsider.com/2014/04/04/lerner-on-payroll-spring-training-site-and-nats-park-roof/

Lerner on payroll, spring training site and Nats Park roof
Mark Zuckerman Apr 4, 2014, 12:09 PM EDT

The Nationals’ $134 million payroll, by far their largest in 10 seasons since arriving in the District, can’t be stretched much more without new sources of revenue, principal owner Mark Lerner said Friday.

“We’re beyond topped out,” Lerner said prior to the Nationals’ home opener. “Our payroll, as you know, has skyrocketed to about $140 million. I don’t think we can go much farther with the revenue stream that we have.”

The Nationals enter 2014 with an increased payroll from last year’s $118 million figure, having traded for pitchers Doug Fister and Jerry Blevins, signed free agent outfielder Nate McLouth and seen several holdover players’ salaries rise.

If the club finds itself needing to make a midseason acquisition, the options might be limited, depending on any new revenue sources cropping up along the way.

To that end, Lerner said season-ticket sales are up slightly from last year, though still below the club’s self-imposed cap of 20,000. The Nationals drew a total of 2.65 million fans in 2013, an average of nearly 33,000 per game.

“I think we’re a little ahead of last year,” Lerner said. “We were pleased with it. … If we had gotten to 20,000, we would have cut it off. We were just short of it.”

Another potential source of increased revenue would be via a new or revised television deal, but no progress appears to have been made in the longstanding disagreement between the Nationals and Orioles over their annual rights fee. Lerner admitted future spending could be affected by the result of the TV contract negotiation.

“We certainly have to be careful in our projections and how we spend money,” he said. “We have to budget smartly. And if we get a better contract some day and we can use those funds to do more things, great. Right now, we don’t have anything more than we’re currently getting. And we’re budgeting accordingly. …

“We’ll look at it after this season, as far as looking at what we can do and what we can afford to do. We went into this saying it’s a business, and we have to run it smartly. We’re not going to do something where we’re losing tens of millions of dollars a year. Everybody can understand that. We have to be smart about it.”

Lerner confirmed the club is in negotiations with Palm Beach County about building a new spring training complex, likely one that would be shared with the Houston Astros. But even if a deal is struck soon, the Nationals would remain in Viera for at least one more spring, likely two.

“I’m hopeful,” Lerner said. “It’s been a long process, but hopefully sometime in the next few months we’ll finally be able to cut a deal with somebody and get that behind us.”

Lerner also addressed the story that emerged in November about the possibility of a retractable roof being constructed on top of Nationals Park. Echoing sentiments he expressed during a CSN Wizards broadcast from Orlando last month, Lerner shot down the notion that the club was actively asking the District to build a roof for the ballpark.

“We really weren’t pursuing it,” he said. “I think people got confused. My dad (managing principal owner Ted Lerner) was sitting with a group from the city, they were throwing around ideas. How can we make the park better? And the idea came up: How about putting a roof on it? You could have all kinds of events. But we didn’t specifically ask for it. I think that got a little out of whack there.”

Offline stealyerbase

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1010 on: April 05, 2014, 12:52:44 pm »
http://natsinsider.com/2014/04/04/lerner-on-payroll-spring-training-site-and-nats-park-roof/

Lerner on payroll, spring training site and Nats Park roof
Mark Zuckerman Apr 4, 2014, 12:09 PM EDT


Another potential source of increased revenue would be via a new or revised television deal, but no progress appears to have been made in the longstanding disagreement between the Nationals and Orioles over their annual rights fee. Lerner admitted future spending could be affected by the result of the TV contract negotiation.

“We certainly have to be careful in our projections and how we spend money,” he said. “We have to budget smartly. And if we get a better contract some day and we can use those funds to do more things, great. Right now, we don’t have anything more than we’re currently getting. And we’re budgeting accordingly. …

“We’ll look at it after this season, as far as looking at what we can do and what we can afford to do. We went into this saying it’s a business, and we have to run it smartly. We’re not going to do something where we’re losing tens of millions of dollars a year. Everybody can understand that. We have to be smart about it.”


Well, there it is. Let the Nats sell their TV rights on the open market and watch them use the additional monies earned on payroll. Gently stated again. Let's resolve this dispute MLB, hmmmm?

Offline TigerFan

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1011 on: April 05, 2014, 06:49:12 pm »
While it might ALLOW the team to spend more money on the ballclub I would urge serious caution in assuming ownership would do so if they are able to put a competitive team on the field and pocket a ton of extra cash I'd be shocked if they didn't do so.

Offline tomterp

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1012 on: April 05, 2014, 08:14:34 pm »
While it might ALLOW the team to spend more money on the ballclub I would urge serious caution in assuming ownership would do so if they are able to put a competitive team on the field and pocket a ton of extra cash I'd be shocked if they didn't do so.

The club still has a lot of debt probably so there's a use for it before they actually pull money out. 

Though the club is probably paying executives such as Mark Lerner a fairly nice salary.

Offline Dave301

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1013 on: April 05, 2014, 08:58:07 pm »
While it might ALLOW the team to spend more money on the ballclub I would urge serious caution in assuming ownership would do so if they are able to put a competitive team on the field and pocket a ton of extra cash I'd be shocked if they didn't do so.
That's not the point here. That's a different discussion.

Offline TigerFan

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1014 on: April 05, 2014, 09:13:59 pm »
Yea, I actually thought this was the thread about Lerner making the statement and not the MASN thread.

Offline comish4lif

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1015 on: April 22, 2014, 09:49:11 am »
From yesterday's Boswell chat:
Quote
MASN
Boz, Is there anything new on a deal with MASN?
 
April 21, 2014 8:08 AM

A. Thomas Boswell :   Not in our lifetimes.

Lets look at one angle on this which isn't mentioned at all. If they think they are being done wrong, why don't the Lerners fight? In public, in court or in the MLB backroom? If you are worth billions, you should be able to take care of your own self-interest. Unless the Lerners are certain that they know the endgame and are just waiting it out, they look weak on this. I'm not sympathetic to their apparent inactivity. Fans can be annoyed at Angelos, at Selig or at MLB. But they should also be annolyed at the Lerners. They have big contract decisions coming up. Are they using the MASN delay as an excxuse not to pay Desmond or Z'mann? (I doubt that.) Regardless of HOW MUCH more money the eventually Nats get, they are on the short end over the last few years. If you were worth $3-billion, and you thought you had a strong case, would you just watch the grass grow?

Offline PebbleBall

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1016 on: April 22, 2014, 09:55:18 am »
From yesterday's Boswell chat:

If you were worth $3-billion, and you thought you had a strong case, would you just watch the grass grow?

Because you were hand-picked by Bud Selig with certain sweetheart considerations in mind, and you are going to respectfully hold off during his last days as commissioner before bringing hell to the new guy.   

Offline machpost

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1017 on: April 22, 2014, 12:15:50 pm »
From yesterday's Boswell chat:

I thought it was already established that MLB was essentially paying off the Nationals to not make a big fuss over the MASN deal, and to sit back and wait for what will presumably be years until MLB finally settles the whole mess their own way. That was my take on the matter, at least.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1018 on: April 22, 2014, 01:51:31 pm »
Meanwhile the Dodger's are still not on TV, and they may not be this year.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-baseball-shaikin-20140420,0,2681216.story#axzz2zXzAlQPf

Their deal could very much be in trouble if they don't resolve things with the providers this year.   Given how much they need to charge to pay that ridiculous contract, there may never be a resolution.

So, things could be much worse.

Offline comish4lif

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1019 on: April 22, 2014, 04:29:57 pm »
I thought it was already established that MLB was essentially paying off the Nationals to not make a big fuss over the MASN deal, and to sit back and wait for what will presumably be years until MLB finally settles the whole mess their own way. That was my take on the matter, at least.
It was claimed that MLB had some payola for the Nats - but the Nats disputed that and my initial take was that there would be 29 teams objecting to MLB subsidizing 1 of 30 teams.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1020 on: April 22, 2014, 04:31:17 pm »
Meanwhile the Dodger's are still not on TV, and they may not be this year.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-baseball-shaikin-20140420,0,2681216.story#axzz2zXzAlQPf

Their deal could very much be in trouble if they don't resolve things with the providers this year.   Given how much they need to charge to pay that ridiculous contract, there may never be a resolution.

So, things could be much worse.

So we could be listening to Charlie and Dave call games for a team with a 250 million dollar payroll, sounds terrible. 

Offline jhuterp

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1021 on: April 22, 2014, 05:37:34 pm »
From yesterday's Boswell chat:

I guess Boswell is implying the Lerners don't have much leverage here.  If that's the case why doesn't the "arbitration panel" of owners just go ahead and make a decision in line w/the current MASN deal?  The whole thing has gotten really weird having dragged out this long.

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1022 on: April 22, 2014, 06:41:23 pm »
I guess Boswell is implying the Lerners don't have much leverage here.  If that's the case why doesn't the "arbitration panel" of owners just go ahead and make a decision in line w/the current MASN deal?  The whole thing has gotten really weird having dragged out this long.

If MLB is currently paying the Lerners "hush Money", then clearly they still have some leverage.



Offline aspenbubba

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Re: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact
« Reply #1024 on: May 08, 2014, 07:34:36 pm »
The club still has a lot of debt probably so there's a use for it before they actually pull money out. 

Though the club is probably paying executives such as Mark Lerner a fairly nice salary.

Didn't the Lerners say they would not draw any monies from the club for many years. I don't think they need a new income stream.