Nationals vs. Reds, Game 2

[sportsfan882]

 

[MrMadison]

sigh.

-6 Errors
-.233 AVG with Men on base
-.205 AVG "Close and Late"
-.208 AVG VS LHP
-62% of his HRs are Solo Shots

Whatever, I could pile on stats but I'd rather not. Stats are NOT everything anyways. They do not tell the complete story. The only way to truly analyze a player's worth is to watch him play either on TV or in person.

I'm not a big fan of Dunn, and I don't see all the hype, but this is as piss poor of an argument against him as you can get.

seriously, the only thing you did was say he has a low batting average.

yeah you "could" pile on stats, but you know that everything outside of his batting average is head and shoulders above anyone who has worn a Nationals uniform this year and it wouldn't help your argument at all.  hence all the "stats don't tell everything" crap you are spouting. if someone were arguing against Flores you would trot out every stat Bill James has ever invented.

for the sake of thoroughness, let's look at his *entire* stat line, instead of only looking at his Batting Average:

(G)105  (AB)339   (R)58   (H)82  (2b)13  (3b)0  (HR)32   (RBI)74   (SB)1  (CS)1  (BB)78 (K)108  ([AVG).242  (OBP).386  (SLG).563  (OPS).950

that is his stat line for 2008.

I defy you to name one player who has worn a Nationals Uniform this season that comes even remotely close to matching Dunn's production this year.

you can't.  let's take a look at the Bolded stats, and find who the closest National is:

HR - Dunn 32, Belliard 10.
RBI: Dunn 74, Flores 47
BB: Dunn 78, Lopez 32, Belliard 30
OBP: Dunn .386, Dukes .364
SLG: Dunn .563, Belliard .454
OPS - Dunn .950, Dukes .779

Dunn may be overrated, sure I'll give you that if you really want it.

But he at this very point in time, would lead the Nationals in *every* significant offensive category except Batting Average, and he would lead the Nationals by a RIDICULOUS margin.  stick him in the middle of this lineup, and it instantly improves.  How much so, is the real question. 

the fact that you seemingly only judge players by their BA shows your inability to use statistics to judge talent. OBP > BA just about every time.

[tomterp]

For the record, I'm not entirely sold on the idea that Bowden's reference was about Dunn. It could very well have been about Matt Holliday.

His first baseman / middle of the order batsman reference was about Nick Swisher.

(WPA, I figured this out subsequent to my response to your query)

[spidernat]

Dude that crap is nothing but hot air blown by a bitter fan who can't stand the fact that his team is not winning. The part about his OPS being inflated by intentional walks clearly shows that other teams fear him. I think it's hilarious that the poster talks about Dunn being almost incapable of driving in runs unless by the home run (like those runs count any less in the scoreboard ) yet he says 62% of his HR's are solos. That would be around 18 bombs. That cuts his RBI total to around 56. Surely Dunn hasn't hit 14 grand slams to account for the other 56 RBI's! What that shows is that he drives in over 33% of his runs via something other than the home run (ballpark figure on that number by the way). But again, he's paid for driving in runs not for the way he drives them in. He's a power hitter. That's why he is walked intentionally as much. Pitchers fear the damage he can cause.

As for the stuff about walking to his position. That's a bunch of irrelevant bullcrap. I don't think he's holding up the game in between innings. As far as I know there is no clock in baseball and there is plenty of time for him to get to his position. At 1B he can get there even quicker.    Who cares that he likes to play cards, fish, golf and whatever karaoke means. That's off field crap. The man has his own life off the field by the way. The massage chair? So what? So he likes to relax. The poster also said he doesn't HEAR much about Dunn watching video. That does not mean he doesn't watch video. Remember also that watching video is a new thing in baseball. Babe Ruth didn't watch video. He may have watched some early pictureso at a speakeasy but that doesn't mean crap when it comes to production (and I'm NOT comparing Dunn to Ruth, I'm just saying). All that stuff only reiterates what I believed all along. These are guys who are bitter because the Reds are not winning titles and they're blaming Dunn for the bulk of it.

[sportsfan882]

I'm not a big fan of Dunn, and I don't see all the hype, but this is as piss poor of an argument against him as you can get.

seriously, the only thing you did was say he has a low batting average.

yeah you "could" pile on stats, but you know that everything outside of his batting average is head and shoulders above anyone who has worn a Nationals uniform this year and it wouldn't help your argument at all.  hence all the "stats don't tell everything" crap you are spouting. if someone were arguing against Flores you would trot out every stat Bill James has ever invented.

Funny. The stats do not tell everything.  They give you a decent idea but to fully understand what a player is capable of and how good he is you have to watch him play several games. 

I've never been a fan of the all or nothing hitters like Dunn or Howard. I prefer more steady and consistent players with multiple abilities like Hanley Ramirez, Chase Utley, and so on.

[PC]

Enough Adam Dunn, PLEASE!

He's not complete garbage but he's not the second-coming either!

His arm is terrible.  His power is above average but he strikes too much.

In any event, HE'S NOT COMING HERE.  He will never play for the Washington Nationals unless he's willing to take a HUGE pay cut, which he isn't going to do.  So, for this forum, he doesn't matter!

[MrMadison]

now with all of that said in my last post...Dunn is a terrible outfielder.  he should play 1B, or he should go to the American League.  I would not want him in our outfield.

[Obed_Marsh]

I enjoyed this game. This is the first game this year that was fun that I attended in person. All around good time.

[UMDNats]

good to see we're happy over an exciting come-from-behind win led by our new middle infielders.

[UMDNats]

His first baseman / middle of the order batsman reference was about Nick Swisher.

(WPA, I figured this out subsequent to my response to your query)

Swisher I would not be opposed to. He wouldn't be that expensive, either.

[sportsfan882]

Enough Adam Dunn, PLEASE!

He's not complete garbage but he's not the second-coming either!

His arm is terrible.  His power is above average but he strikes too much.

In any event, HE'S NOT COMING HERE.  He will never play for the Washington Nationals unless he's willing to take a HUGE pay cut, which he isn't going to do.  So, for this forum, he doesn't matter!

  I'd be happy if no one ever mentioned that bum's name on here again.

[MrMadison]

Funny. The stats do not tell everything.  They give you a decent idea but to fully understand what a player is capable of and how good he is you have to watch him play several games. 
 

oh I know this very well.

however, I doubt your sincerity in spouting this logic in regards to this particular argument.  I believe you looked up Dunn's stats, and when you saw everything else besides his BA, you saw you could not form your argument with it, so you discarded it under the "stats don't tell everything" protective shield and threw his Batting Average stats out there to try and make your argument stronger.  which, by the way, failed miserably.

but that's just my own opinion.

and don't get me wrong, I don't think Dunn is god's gift to baseball or anything, and I'm not as infatuated with the guy as most folks here are.  I just think your argument here is very weak.

[cmdterps44]

lol good win for nats but weird were arguing over Dunn.

Id take Dunn just for his run producing. Sure you can throw stats left and right and its different from watching but if he could play first, we wouldnt need his weak ass arm and charging balls or running for fly outs (except for pop flies and stuff)

It can be different, but from ive seen his bat, sure solo shots you can say, but could be different if we had him at 4th spot knocking in our would be lineup - EB, Gooz, Zimmy, whatever my view on it - and can score runs.

I dunno just anyones opinion but i would like him here