Richmond Flying Squirrels

[imref]

Figured this deserved its own thread:

Breaking ground on a new ballpark Saturday. And a new sponsor:

https://www.milb.com/news/richmond-flying-squirrels-and-carmax-announce-new-ballpark-and-entertainment-venue-as-carmax-park

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Figured this deserved its own thread:

Breaking ground on a new ballpark Saturday. And a new sponsor:

https://www.milb.com/news/richmond-flying-squirrels-and-carmax-announce-new-ballpark-and-entertainment-venue-as-carmax-park

Carmax? too bad. Had it been CarFax, then the carfax fox could have chased the flying squirrel around between innings.

[imref]

Carmax? too bad. Had it been CarFax, then the carfax fox could have chased the flying squirrel around between innings.

last time i went to a game in Richmond the Flying Squirrels chased me around the ballpark. They thought I was nuts.

[nfotiu]

Probably meaningless speculation, but saw this little blurb in a times dispatch article a couple weeks ago.

Major League Baseball could alter the affiliation of the Squirrels, who are the Double-A franchise of the San Francisco Giants. Switching the Squirrels to the Washington Nationals’ minor league system is an option.

https://richmond.com/sports/professional/other/could-the-squirrels-become-a-washington-nationals-affiliate-plus-11-other-questions-about-stadium-plans/article_d0ca68c6-600c-11ef-9270-cbc35d9f4748.html#tracking-source=article-related-bottom

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Probably meaningless speculation, but saw this little blurb in a times dispatch article a couple weeks ago.

https://richmond.com/sports/professional/other/could-the-squirrels-become-a-washington-nationals-affiliate-plus-11-other-questions-about-stadium-plans/article_d0ca68c6-600c-11ef-9270-cbc35d9f4748.html#tracking-source=article-related-bottom

TBH, switching them to Hi-A and Wilmington to AA would make some sense in terms of Nats geography, and Wilmington would probably like AA. I don't think you could do something similar with Rochester downgrading to AA.

[Natsinpwc]

TBH, switching them to Hi-A and Wilmington to AA would make some sense in terms of Nats geography, and Wilmington would probably like AA. I don't think you could do something similar with Rochester downgrading to AA.

I don’t think Richmond put money into a park to downgrade to A ball. They view themselves as a Triple A city.

[nfotiu]

I don’t think Richmond put money into a park to downgrade to A ball. They view themselves as a Triple A city.

Agreed.   Richmond's attendance was a  bit higher than Rochester last year.   They were in the top 20 of all affiliates with an AA team with no local connection in a crappy stadium.

An AAA Nats affiliate in a new stadium in Richmond would probably at least challenge for #1 in attendance for a while.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I don’t think Richmond put money into a park to downgrade to A ball. They view themselves as a Triple A city.

Agreed.   Richmond's attendance was a  bit higher than Rochester last year.   They were in the top 20 of all affiliates with an AA team with no local connection in a crappy stadium.

An AAA Nats affiliate in a new stadium in Richmond would probably at least challenge for #1 in attendance for a while.

you are probably right, but I don't see an AA/AAA swap unless the teams are under a common ownership or there is MLB expansion and new AAA franchises. Short of that, it's going to take MLB stepping in like they reorganized the minor leagues a few years ago.

Perhaps if the As eventually move to Vegas, then that minor league AAA would become available and there could be some shuffling.  As get a new PCL affiliate, that team affiliates with Rochester and the IL, Richmond gets the AAA franchise that Vegas is giving up, and one of the western IL teams switches to the PCL.

[Elvir Ovcina]

you are probably right, but I don't see an AA/AAA swap unless the teams are under a common ownership or there is MLB expansion and new AAA franchises. Short of that, it's going to take MLB stepping in like they reorganized the minor leagues a few years ago.

Perhaps if the As eventually move to Vegas, then that minor league AAA would become available and there could be some shuffling.  As get a new PCL affiliate, that team affiliates with Rochester and the IL, Richmond gets the AAA franchise that Vegas is giving up, and one of the western IL teams switches to the PCL.

There's no way Richmond's ownership would take High-A.  It's the highest-drawing team and third-largest MSA in AA.  The new park is being built to AAA standards. 

I think it probably waits for expansion (and the Giants are reasonably happy with the affiliation), but expansion probably triggers a new realignment.  Nashville getting MLB would free a AAA team and also add another.  If it's Nashville/SLC, that means three new AAA cities.

Anything short-term is a mess in terms of league footprints except just swapping affiliations between Richmond and Harrisburg.  MLB demanded 10-year affiliation agreements for stability's sake and those still have half their term on them.

[Slateman]

Nats need to get their Triple A team there ASAP

[Natsinpwc]

Ok. I lost track. Are they upgrading the stadium to Triple A standards. Would be nice but where would SF double A go?

[Elvir Ovcina]

Ok. I lost track. Are they upgrading the stadium to Triple A standards. Would be nice but where would SF double A go?

Yes, supposedly. 

SF would just play musical chairs.  If Richmond were to go to AAA without any expansion, some city would drop to AA. 

It would have to be in or near one of the AA league footprints (as in, not west of Texas or anywhere in the upper midwest).  There's not really an obvious candidate between geographical fit, ownership situation (for example, Syracuse and Rochester would be semi-logical candidates but both have ownership that would make it unworkable), or affiliation. 

On the merits, there is no reason there should be a AAA team in the Atlanta suburbs (equally so for a AA team) and the team draws poorly despite a great facility and is owned by a PE firm that is very open to both moves and level swaps (having done both in the past year), but there's no way the Giants or Braves would want SF's AA team to be in the Atlanta equivalent of Herndon.

If it were to be part of a slightly bigger realignment, there would be more possibilities.  But you'd still be dealing with realigning leagues.  Something like dropping Gwinnett to AA/SL (Braves); Richmond to AAA/IL (Nats); Binghamton to High-A (Rays); Bowling Green to the SL (Giants). Still an affiliation mess given that Cohen owns the Brooklyn Cyclones, who probably won't be in A ball very long.

[nfotiu]

There were articles in the Times Dispatch about Nats showing interest in Richmond for AAA in 2020 with a new stadium on the horizon, but the Giants didn't want to move.

Nationals have shown interest
Before MLB in 2020 assumed operational control of the minors from minor league baseball governing bodies, the Washington Nationals explored the possibility of relocating their Triple-A team (now in Rochester, New York) to Richmond, with the understanding a new stadium was on the way. The Giants did not want to vacate Richmond.


A Washington-Richmond arrangement would make more geographic sense for the Nats as far as player movement, and it would increase interest in the Flying Squirrels in the Richmond area. Washington’s Triple-A affiliate has been in Rochester since the 2021 season. Before that, the Nats’ Triple-A team played in Fresno, California, for two years. For a decade prior to that, Washington’s Triple-A team was based in Syracuse, New York.

MLB: proximity is a priority
In February of 2021, MLB officially announced its restructuring of the minors and stated in a release: “As a part of MLB’s realignment, many Minor League affiliates will be in significantly closer geographic proximity to the Major League Clubs with which they are associated. On average, Major League Clubs will now be over 200 miles closer to their Triple-A affiliates.

“By creating better geographical synergy between a Major League Club and its affiliates, more fans will be able to watch an organization’s players progress in their careers from the Minor Leagues to the big leagues in their home region.”


The Giants since 2003 have been linked with the Double-A franchise that’s now in Richmond. The Giants to MLB have repeatedly expressed a desire to remain in Richmond, which carries weight.

MLB makes call
The determination of which MLB team is the Flying Squirrels’ parent club is up to MLB. Those calls are based on numerous factors, including preferences of current parent clubs, with geographic proximity presumably a strong consideration. Washington again is expected to explore the potential of affiliating with Richmond as a new ballpark is built.

In July of 2010, the Flying Squirrels first season in Richmond, the Nationals’ president, Stan Kasten, visited The Diamond. His mission was to assess the condition of the stadium and meet the Double-A franchise’s management team.

The Nationals, sources said, were impressed by the management team, but not by The Diamond.

https://richmond.com/sports/professional/the-diamond-washington-nationals-richmond-flying-squirrels/article_d56e3996-3a07-11ef-8329-33aef3ae0802.html

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Yes, supposedly. 

SF would just play musical chairs.  If Richmond were to go to AAA without any expansion, some city would drop to AA. 

It would have to be in or near one of the AA league footprints (as in, not west of Texas or anywhere in the upper midwest).  There's not really an obvious candidate between geographical fit, ownership situation (for example, Syracuse and Rochester would be semi-logical candidates but both have ownership that would make it unworkable), or affiliation. 

On the merits, there is no reason there should be a AAA team in the Atlanta suburbs (equally so for a AA team) and the team draws poorly despite a great facility and is owned by a PE firm that is very open to both moves and level swaps (having done both in the past year), but there's no way the Giants or Braves would want SF's AA team to be in the Atlanta equivalent of Herndon.

Barves AA is in Pearl, Mississippi. I don't know if that would be a location the Giants would want, but perhaps you could see something like this:

Giants move AA from Richmong to Pearl.
Braves move AA from Pearl to Gwinett.
Gwinett's AAA affiliation moves to Richmond.
Nats drop Rochester and affiliate with Richmond.
Braves affiliate with Rochester.

I don't see the Braves being that charitable to the Nats. I would think that if teir AAA is not in Gwinett, they'd love to be back in a good ballpark in Richmond.

I actually think the As to Vegas will be the next reshuffle. Really would only need a new AA city in the East and an IL team that would shift to the PCL, along with an MLB team currently with a PCL affiliate that prefers Rochester.

[Five Banners]

Barves AA is in Pearl, Mississippi. I don't know if that would be a location the Giants would want, but perhaps you could see something like this:

Giants move AA from Richmong to Pearl.
Braves move AA from Pearl to Gwinett.
Gwinett's AAA affiliation moves to Richmond.
Nats drop Rochester and affiliate with Richmond.
Braves affiliate with Rochester.

I don't see the Braves being that charitable to the Nats. I would think that if teir AAA is not in Gwinett, they'd love to be back in a good ballpark in Richmond.

I actually think the As to Vegas will be the next reshuffle. Really would only need a new AA city in the East and an IL team that would shift to the PCL, along with an MLB team currently with a PCL affiliate that prefers Rochester.

Fresno, whose AAA team was dropped down to low A, Might be a West Coast fit. On the east side, Trenton went from a AA team to the same draft league as the Frederick Keys, so they might be a fit to go back to AA conceivably. Also, Jackson, Mississippi had a AA team that was no longer there after the recent shakeup. there seem to be enough movable parts here if people want to make things happen, and who knows what else is already going on behind the scenes.

[English Natsie]

Should we be squirrelling them away?...(sorry... )

[Elvir Ovcina]

Barves AA is in Pearl, Mississippi. I don't know if that would be a location the Giants would want, but perhaps you could see something like this:

Giants move AA from Richmong to Pearl.
Braves move AA from Pearl to Gwinett.
Gwinett's AAA affiliation moves to Richmond.
Nats drop Rochester and affiliate with Richmond.
Braves affiliate with Rochester.

I don't see the Braves being that charitable to the Nats. I would think that if teir AAA is not in Gwinett, they'd love to be back in a good ballpark in Richmond.

I actually think the As to Vegas will be the next reshuffle. Really would only need a new AA city in the East and an IL team that would shift to the PCL, along with an MLB team currently with a PCL affiliate that prefers Rochester.

Barves AA is moving to Columbus, GA this winter.  It's a done deal.

[Dave in Fairfax]

Columbus. The armpit of Georgia. I was stationed there for several years.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Columbus. The armpit of Georgia. I was stationed there for several years.

it's become better since the advent of whole body deodorants.

[imref]

Columbus. The armpit of Georgia. I was stationed there for several years.

Home of the Arnold Classic (Schwarzenegger)!

[varoadking]

Barves AA is in Pearl, Mississippi. I don't know if that would be a location the Giants would want, but perhaps you could see something like this:

Giants move AA from Richmong to Pearl.
Braves move AA from Pearl to Gwinett.
Gwinett's AAA affiliation moves to Richmond.
Nats drop Rochester and affiliate with Richmond.
Braves affiliate with Rochester.

I don't see the Braves being that charitable to the Nats. I would think that if teir AAA is not in Gwinett, they'd love to be back in a good ballpark in Richmond.

I actually think the As to Vegas will be the next reshuffle. Really would only need a new AA city in the East and an IL team that would shift to the PCL, along with an MLB team currently with a PCL affiliate that prefers Rochester.

It's nice to dream...

[wj73]

Atlantic League ballparks are built to Triple-A standards, and I suspect some of the other independent leagues have MiLB standard ballparks. I don’t know anything about the contractual obligations between these independent leagues and their team owners but it seems that most owners would prefer to be affiliated with MLB rather than an independent league if given the choice. That opens up a lot more possibilities for already existing ballparks to affiliate with a MLB team when MLB expands.

[Count Walewski]

Acquiring the Richmond Squirrels franchise should be a long-term strategic goal of the Washington Nationals, like how acquiring a warm water port on the Mediterranean Sea was a long-term strategic goal of the Russian Empire for centuries. They never accomplished it, but it was the goal for hundreds of years across otherwise very different regimes.

Agree that I don't see an opening right now to seize Richmond, but wait patiently for opportunities to come. I hate that I can't think about Richmond without remembering the 2014 NLDS.

[GburgNatsFan]

Hagerstown just built a brand new Atlantic League park, right?

Atlantic League ballparks are built to Triple-A standards, and I suspect some of the other independent leagues have MiLB standard ballparks. I don’t know anything about the contractual obligations between these independent leagues and their team owners but it seems that most owners would prefer to be affiliated with MLB rather than an independent league if given the choice. That opens up a lot more possibilities for already existing ballparks to affiliate with a MLB team when MLB expands.

[wj73]

Hagerstown just built a brand new Atlantic League park, right?

Yep. Playing conditions like the field, locker rooms, lighting, etc. all built to Triple A standards. But, as currently configured, it only holds about 4,000 spectators - too few for a Triple A team, but might be acceptable for a low or high A team. Maybe move the Blue Rocks there next time things are shuffled around? Wilmington has only been affiliated with the Nats for a few years, so there’s not a lot of historical connection.


In Hagerstown, there is a large area in right that’s currently a picnic area where more stands could conceivably be built, but I think it might only add another thousand or so.