Author Topic: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY  (Read 1438 times)

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Offline imref

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Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« on: August 28, 2024, 10:01:15 pm »
Had we lost this game the base running blunder would have replaced “natinals” as the lowest point in franchise history.  At one point Gutierrez turned away from the play in apparent disgust. That should be a fireable offense.

[JCA Edit - Pasting from below the Benny Hill link:

And the Nats base running blunder set to Benny Hill music:
https://www.threads.net/@ocw5000/post/C_PJcr2x4cE

The 8th inning baserunning vs the Yankees in the last game of the series deserves its own thread. Only Nook Logan can feel relief about it because What Was He Thinking? now is superseded in our memory ]

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2024, 10:04:40 pm »
Had we lost this game the base running blunder would have replaced “natinals” as the lowest point in franchise history.  At one point Gutierrez turned away from the play in apparent disgust. That should be a fireable offense.
who gets fired? Gallo?

Offline imref

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2024, 10:22:43 pm »
who gets fired? Gallo?
gutierrez didn’t give a clear sign from what I saw.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2024, 10:28:27 pm »
https://x.com/nexgennats/status/1828967459988074588?s=46

Gutierrez turns his back and shrugs at Davey in the middle of the play.

Did the manager discuss this in the postgame?

Offline imref

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2024, 11:07:47 pm »
And the Nats base running blunder set to Benny Hill music:
https://www.threads.net/@ocw5000/post/C_PJcr2x4cE

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2024, 11:37:34 pm »
And the Nats base running blunder set to Benny Hill music:
https://www.threads.net/@ocw5000/post/C_PJcr2x4cE


I can laugh about it now. That was hilarious.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2024, 12:02:41 am »
Lost in all that fiasco in the bottom of the 8th was Tena smoking another ball in a big situation.

Offline imref

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2024, 12:15:57 am »

Offline rileyn

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2024, 07:07:22 am »
https://x.com/nexgennats/status/1828967459988074588?s=46

Gutierrez turns his back and shrugs at Davey in the middle of the play.

Did the manager discuss this in the postgame?

Bush league move by Gutierrez.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2024, 07:23:30 am »
https://x.com/nexgennats/status/1828967459988074588?s=46

Gutierrez turns his back and shrugs at Davey in the middle of the play.

Did the manager discuss this in the postgame?
He’s given up on the guys baserunning. Don’t blame him.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2024, 07:29:05 am »
https://x.com/nexgennats/status/1828967459988074588?s=46

Gutierrez turns his back and shrugs at Davey in the middle of the play.

Did the manager discuss this in the postgame?
It wasn't discussed in interview. For any gruff I give Martinez, including my post other day bashing poor defense other day, I refuse to believe that there won't be a volcanic blowup today if it did not already happen last night.

I know it won't, but I wish I believed that was the type of embarrassing moment that would light a fire under this team to focus a bit more on being clean in pitching and defense.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2024, 08:12:27 am »
It wasn't discussed in interview. For any gruff I give Martinez, including my post other day bashing poor defense other day, I refuse to believe that there won't be a volcanic blowup today if it did not already happen last night.

I know it won't, but I wish I believed that was the type of embarrassing moment that would light a fire under this team to focus a bit more on being clean in pitching and defense.
I imagine it was more than one blow up. One for the entire team, then one for the players, then one for the coaches.

This is an abject failure by everyone. Gallo is veteran, and Yepez and Tena both had the vast majority of their development done in other systems.

Gallo shouldn't have been tagging. I kind of understand it, given that Judge's almost singlehandedly won them the game the night before because of his defensive prowess. But as soon as Judge turns his back, he has to forgo tagging. He doens't have to start sprinting, but he can't be tagging.

Yepez needed to pay attention to the runner in front of him. As soon as he saw that he was like 20 feet from Gallo, he has to know he's not scoring. Go back to second.

Tena is thinking a double out of the box. He literally crushed a ball to the wall, he's supposed to. At some point, he needs to look up and see what the hell is going on.

Gutierrez has to keep Gallo on third. Short of tackling him, he needs to be screaming that the play is dead, get on third. Parra needed to be watching Yepez and Gallo, keeping Tena at first (maybe he did, I don't know)

The worst case scenario for that play should have been bases loaded, no outs. But through everyone's colossal freak ups, it was a double play.


I think this is the catalyst for focus on defense and baserunning during next spring training, similar to how Irvin, Gore, and Gray's walks in 2023 became the focus of Spring Training in 2024.

Offline rileyn

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2024, 08:27:23 am »
But once the rundown started and Gallo was dead between 3rd and home, that is when baserunners need to find a base and stay on it.  Both Yepez and Tena vacated a base to run backwards.  Just shocking how one coach and 3 major league ballplayers screwed that play up to that extent.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2024, 08:55:28 am »
Lost in all that fiasco in the bottom of the 8th was Tena smoking another ball in a big situation.
yes. I'm going to give him a 90% pass on that fiasco. He saw the runner directly ahead of him advancing to 3rd so moved to 2d. Gallo can't stop. I didn't notice if Gutierrez held him, but even if Gallo is out at home, he has to give himself up to keep runners on 2d and 3d. The next fault is Yepez (I think that's the other runner). Once Gallo does stick at 3d, he has to give himself up when Tena takes 2d.  He also had a second chance to give himself up when initially Gallo makes it back to 3d and Tena is at 2d. Tena is only caught because Yepez tries to make it back to 2d after Gallo is in the run down that catches him.

I've resolved that, for the rest of this year, I will not blame Tena for anything, or at least anything I can blame on Gallo.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2024, 08:56:27 am »
BTW - is the rundown worth breaking out into a  Clubhouse thread? This ranks up with Nook Logan.

Offline varoadking

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2024, 09:03:17 am »
BTW - is the rundown worth breaking out into a  Clubhouse thread? This ranks up with Nook Logan.

I'd say no, only because the entire coaching staff will be back again next year and they'll certainly manage to find a way to top even this...

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2024, 09:04:16 am »
I'd say no, only because the entire coaching staff will be back again next year and they'll certainly manage to find a way to top even this...
Hopefully Gallo will be back to show that type of veteran leadership.

Offline readonly

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2024, 09:41:10 am »
How to know your team sucks even when they win.

Offline imref

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2024, 10:18:36 am »
8-6-2-3-2-5-4 for those of you scoring at home.

Anyone playing those numbers in a lottery?

It could have been a lot worse: Triple play followed by the Yankees taking the lead in the ninth.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2024, 10:19:22 am »
Going back to the days when Dusty Baker was hesitant to call up Trea Turner, I believe Rizzo gives his managers a lot of influence on who is ultimately called up and signed for the active roster. I certainly think Martinez being in season 7 has influence.

I remember back in the Riggleman days it was all pitching and defense. Ever since the second they tossed Mike Morse in the corner OF, this franchise has consistently chose bat over defense in almost every instance.

Going back to 2018, this club is fifth worst in defensive fWAR. Eye test would make them seem worse. Below average in baserunning fWAR. Eye test would be worse until maybe this season.

We’re never going to field a team that does the small things right under this current management structure. It’s not what they want to do. It is fine if they built a lineup that can outslug everyone and dominant pitching that hides bad defense. it worked in 2019!

Maybe everything breaks right and a scary homegrown middle of the order built around Wood, Crews, House, FA DH supplemented by a homegrown pitching core where Nats can march out a solid arm every day fixes everything. Personally, I wish we could start fostering a culture where we occasionally pick one guy for defense and baserunning over the guy with the bigger bat. It’s why I’m so defensive of Jacob Young.
My post from a few days ago. This club from top to bottom has allowed an atmosphere of pitiful defense and baserunning past decade.

Last night was a good win with a whole lot to get excited about. I'm hoping that humiliating moment is a breaking point where the coaching staff and front office say "Enough" and you see serious commitment to fixing the issue. If this team became league average defensively and on bases in 2025, it would be a huge improvement.

Offline welch

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2024, 10:19:53 am »
I was listening to the Yankee radio broadcast. Ricky Ricardo and Susyn Waldman were astounded as they tried to describe that play. "Ricky Gutierez has an expression that says he has just watched Little League base-running", and quoted Jon Miller on "the worst base running in all time". They blamed Gallo for stopping at third and then trotting himself into a rundown between third and home.

Looking at the replay, I can't imagine what Gallo is trying to do.

Offline imref

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2024, 10:23:35 am »
I was listening to the Yankee radio broadcast. Ricky Ricardo and Susyn Waldman were astounded as they tried to describe that play. "Ricky Gutierez has an expression that says he has just watched Little League base-running", and quoted Jon Miller on "the worst base running in all time". They blamed Gallo for stopping at third and then trotting himself into a rundown between third and home.

Looking at the replay, I can't imagine what Gallo is trying to do.

The TV announcers thought Gallo saw Gutierez put up the stop sign for Yepez and thought it was for him. I blame Gutierez as given his position, it did look like he was stopping Gallo.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2024, 11:06:35 am »
8-6-2-3-2-5-4 for those of you scoring at home.

Anyone playing those numbers in a lottery?

It could have been a lot worse: Triple play followed by the Yankees taking the lead in the ninth.
wait - Judge to the shortstop who relays a throw home, OK. Was the next throw to 1st rather than 3rd? Was the catcher driving Gallo back to 3rd then throwing to the first baseman who then threw back to the catcher? That's not how a run down goes. Looks like the 3 and 5 are reversed.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2024, 11:09:19 am »
The TV announcers thought Gallo saw Gutierez put up the stop sign for Yepez and thought it was for him. I blame Gutierez as given his position, it did look like he was stopping Gallo.
typically, Gutierrez is way down the 3d base line so it is possible Gallo picked him up.

Offline IanRubbish

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Re: Epic bad baserunning display v the NYY
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2024, 11:40:03 am »
I'd say no, only because the entire coaching staff will be back again next year and they'll certainly manage to find a way to top even this...

This train wreck of an org needs to fulfill its destiny as the team that plays against the Savannah Bananas, but instead of thought out, rehearsed theatrics, they do this on the basepaths and naturally play clown baseball.  Mini Me would love what it does for attendance, he can continue to spend very little on coaches, and the opposing fans would love it.  Happiness all around.