Author Topic: Fire Jim Hickey  (Read 264 times)

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Online IanRubbish

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Fire Jim Hickey
« Topic Start: April 01, 2024, 07:17:10 PM »
I get that he's only still around because he's friends with Davey, but this has gotten absurd.  The starters pitch passively, throwing tons of pitches out of the zone, and even if the bullpen was better, they'd be gassed by June having to cover so many innings.

This team gave up 845 runs last year, 4th worst in MLB, and could be worse than that this year.  The peculiar title they gave to Doo only reflects the org's dysfunction, as does keeping Hickey around.

Offline imref

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #1: April 01, 2024, 07:17:56 PM »
Might also help to have better pitchers.

Online IanRubbish

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #2: April 01, 2024, 07:21:00 PM »
Might also help to have better pitchers.

Agree, not his fault this org has zero ability to develop pitchers, but these young pitchers need guidance and the importance of working within the strike zone, and getting their pitches per inning down to league average.  Hickey doesn't believe in that "analytics stuff", and while the talent is limited, he's making it much worse by not getting them focused on working efficiently.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #3: April 01, 2024, 09:56:43 PM »
Look at the guys we signed this off-season. I'm ready for a Commanders type overhaul from the top down.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #4: April 01, 2024, 10:06:22 PM »
Agree, not his fault this org has zero ability to develop pitchers, but these young pitchers need guidance and the importance of working within the strike zone, and getting their pitches per inning down to league average.  Hickey doesn't believe in that "analytics stuff", and while the talent is limited, he's making it much worse by not getting them focused on working efficiently.
They're supposed to learn that by the time they get to the big leagues.

This is a ability and developmental issue. Hickey is a symptom of the problem.

Online IanRubbish

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #5: April 02, 2024, 12:46:52 AM »
Hickey is a symptom of the problem.

He is.  He would have been fired in any other org, but Davey has insisted on keeping him around while they give Doo that weird title.

Just because the org can't develop pitchers doesn't mean he's not accountable for teaching bad habits once they reach the big league club. 

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #6: April 02, 2024, 09:36:20 AM »
He is.  He would have been fired in any other org, but Davey has insisted on keeping him around while they give Doo that weird title.

Just because the org can't develop pitchers doesn't mean he's not accountable for teaching bad habits once they reach the big league club. 
I don't think the Hickey philosophy is to nibble and run up big pitch counts. I think his philosophy is to pound the strike zone, low breaking stuff outside, high hard in, use a change up to keep them off balance. I think that's the running joke, tbh. Philosophically, Davey is on board with "strike 1 is the best pitch" and getting ahead. His problem is that most of his guys either get killed living in the strike zone or (in Gore's case) haven't developed the control to pound the strike zone with tough to hit stuff. Add in a Corbin, who used to get by on his slider getting swings and misses even when it moved out of the zone, and Hickey doesn't really know how to make chicken salad out of chicken poop.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #7: April 02, 2024, 11:56:36 AM »
I very rarely think assistants are worth firing.

Any player on this roster has started dozens if not hundreds of college, minors, Spring games, not counting experience on other teams. They're largely finished projects who are only being shaped around the edges. Game plans are made with leadership from top down and based on organizational strategies. Firing him and replacing him with someone else in the organization isn't a magical cure, unless there are issues in a locker room.


Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #8: April 02, 2024, 12:01:44 PM »
He is.  He would have been fired in any other org, but Davey has insisted on keeping him around while they give Doo that weird title.

Just because the org can't develop pitchers doesn't mean he's not accountable for teaching bad habits once they reach the big league club. 

If people start getting fired for performance, Everyone from Rizzo through Davey on down would be gone. Blaming Hickey is pointless. The rot starts from the head and the team isn't for sale anymore.

Online IanRubbish

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #9: April 02, 2024, 04:27:22 PM »
I very rarely think assistants are worth firing.

Any player on this roster has started dozens if not hundreds of college, minors, Spring games, not counting experience on other teams.

But then we wouldn't need pitching coaches at all.

Yes, Hickey's remaining presence is a symptom of organizational dysfunction that values politics, PR, and personal relationships over performance.  And yes, if it weren't this way Rizzo would be long gone.  But it's painful to watch our starters.  They can barely get through 5 innings, go deep into counts, and are afraid to challenge hitters.   Darnell Coles is not doing hitters any favors with his swing early and often approach, but this team's problems on the mound are more persistent and problematic than its issues at bat.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #10: April 02, 2024, 04:46:48 PM »
But then we wouldn't need pitching coaches at all.

Yes, Hickey's remaining presence is a symptom of organizational dysfunction that values politics, PR, and personal relationships over performance.  And yes, if it weren't this way Rizzo would be long gone.  But it's painful to watch our starters.  They can barely get through 5 innings, go deep into counts, and are afraid to challenge hitters.   Darnell Coles is not doing hitters any favors with his swing early and often approach, but this team's problems on the mound are more persistent and problematic than its issues at bat.

Then blame the owners who are too cheap to pay for better pitchers or the GM too incompetent to find them or develop them. Firing the hitting coach seems pointless

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #11: April 02, 2024, 04:58:30 PM »
At this point I don’t think it helps much to fire the coaches while keeping the manager. And even the GM.  Team seems doomed with the owners not wanting to sell now and attached to Rizzo’s hip. 

Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #12: April 02, 2024, 05:27:23 PM »
At this point I don’t think it helps much to fire the coaches while keeping the manager. And even the GM.  Team seems doomed with the owners not wanting to sell now and attached to Rizzo’s hip.

Don't forget the Godfather...Scott Boras...

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #13: April 02, 2024, 06:09:41 PM »
Don't forget the Godfather...Scott Boras...

Other teams manage to not get screwed so badly by his clients. I think the plan all along was to sell and let the deferrals and Strasburg’s out years be the next guy’s problem, only the team wasn’t worth what they thought it was and now it’s their problem

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #14: April 02, 2024, 06:23:51 PM »
Don't forget the Godfather...Scott Boras...
Made them offers they could refuse but didn’t. 

Offline rbw5t

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #15: April 03, 2024, 05:02:26 PM »
Then blame the owners who are too cheap to pay for better pitchers or the GM too incompetent to find them or develop them. Firing the hitting coach seems pointless

Exactly!  Remember, we’ve had Mike Maddox and Kevin Long here. They are among the very best at their jobs, and left because ownership doesn’t value coaching enough to pay them the going rate.  Lerners have shown themselves to be irrationally cheap in pointless ways.

As an aside, did anyone read the piece on Soto in the Athletic. Nothing really new in it, but heartbreaking to read how the idiotic, mean spirited leak of him turning down the big offer affected him. If not for that stupid attempt at making him out to be the bad guy, it seems like we might have had a chance to re-sign him when free agency came around. Now, he won’t ever trust the organization. (The segue from hickey to Soto is that it also affected him negatively when we foolishly let Long walk)

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #16: April 03, 2024, 08:11:32 PM »
Maddox was mid. We won the WS with Paul Menhart

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #17: April 03, 2024, 08:13:16 PM »
Maddox was mid. We won the WS with Paul Menhart
What happened to Menhart?

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #18: April 03, 2024, 08:24:05 PM »
What happened to Menhart?

Coaching in the Atlantic league. Gets props for me with how he handled things during the 2019 playoff run

Offline varoadking

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Re: Fire Jim Hickey
« Reply #19: April 03, 2024, 08:26:34 PM »
What happened to Menhart?

He's bounced around since we canned him in 2020...