Author Topic: Bullpen 2024 - Maybe this time it really will be a strength?  (Read 3531 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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One problem with the bullpen structure is that there are a lot of guys who cannot be optioned out when they are overused. It's kind of fundamental to bullpen structure under the current rules to have a lot of guys who can be shuffled on and off the 26 man who can throw hard and pitch in the 5th, 6th, and 7th if needed. I think the only optionable guys in the bullpen are Finnegan and Garcia.

Our minor league 40 man roster bullpen arms are Adon (now), Willingham, Brzykcy, and Cole Henry. Henry is still rehabbing. Brzykcy has thrown 15 innings over 3 levels (4 in the florida complex league, 10 in A+, 1 in AA) and seems to be a bit walky. He's going every 3 days or so (once with a day off), so I'm thinking he's still not quite ready for a call up. That said, there's no reason Willingham is on the roster if he's not available for a call up.

Replacing Weems on the 40 man with somebody like Cate would start to create space to give prevent bullpen burnout. Maybe the move is to replace replace Weems on th 40 man with Cate, then call up Cate and Adon to replace Weems and Garcia for now. Hope Brzykcy is usable soon, and be prepared to shuttle in Willingham for Adon when he is burned out. Otherwise, can Willingham if you won't use him.

Online welch

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- The Nats cannot, or do not, pitch Tanner whenever it matters. Would any team take him if the Nats took him off the 40-man and sent him to Rochester? Or is he close to becoming effective again? Is he on the 26-man so Nats trainers and doctors can work in him?

- Weems has looked lost. If he cannot pitch, then he wears down the bullpen.

The strategy of using a bullpen filled with one-inning relievers seems dead. Expecting each to throw 99 mph doesn't work unless a team has a near-infinite pool of 23-year-old kids just up from the minors. That is, optionable players. That's a thought I keep having as the Nats empty their bullpen every other game.

Meanwhile:

- Willingham has been awful in Rochester. He is not an option.

- Adon is cruising along with a 5.71 ERA. He can pitch two or even three innings in an appearance, but, wow...

- Maybe Joe La Sorsa, but he was tried and found mediocre last year. So was Rico Garcia.

- Cate is a hopeful, maybe

Otherwise, the bullpen needs another of Rizzo's trade miracles.

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The strategy of using a bullpen filled with one-inning relievers seems dead. Expecting each to throw 99 mph doesn't work unless a team has a near-infinite pool of 23-year-old kids just up from the minors. That is, optionablr players. That's a thought I keep having as the Nats empty their bullpen every other game.

Its actually the opposite. Relievers are becoming 1 inning specialists, with teams finding and developing guys with specific pitch sets to use against specific parts of an opponent's lineup. This is why the roster was expanded to 26 players.

- Adon is cruising along with a 5.71 ERA. He can pitch two or even three innings in an appearance, but, wow...

They just converted him to a reliever. He hasn't given up a run his last five appearances.


Offline aspenbubba

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One of the issues is what to do with Rainey. If he had options that would be an easy decision. He doesn’t. The Nats cannot DFA him and hope another team doesn’t claim him because I believe they can and option him to the minors like we just did with Rodriguez.

Offline rileyn

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One of the issues is what to do with Rainey. If he had options that would be an easy decision. He doesn’t. The Nats cannot DFA him and hope another team doesn’t claim him because I believe they can and option him to the minors like we just did with Rodriguez.
Why are we concerned that another team would claim him?  IMO that would be the ideal scenario.

Online welch

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Its actually the opposite. Relievers are becoming 1 inning specialists, with teams finding and developing guys with specific pitch sets to use against specific parts of an opponent's lineup. This is why the roster was expanded to 26 players.


Yes, teams went to one-inning relievers years ago. It is a mistake unless a team has so many one-inning fireballers that it can use up four relievers every game. If a pitcher throw a "quality start", that still requires three relievers a game. And six innings is unusually good, or else it would not be a mark that starts aim for. Therefore, a team needs relievers to cover four innings a game, or eight relief pitchers every two games.

If an average start is now five innings, and using relievers who throw 99 or 98, a team needs young relievers it can send down when the youngster wears out and needs a rest. And the team needs a lot of them. Younger guys because older pitchers have run out of options.

That seems unsustainable.

In the case of the Nats, they need to get rid of Weems and Rainey. Maybe Adon will work out as a reliever, and maybe Rutledge would, as you suggested, be more reliable pitching only a couple innings rather than tryng to go twice through the order. Maybe Cate is ready. However, the rest of the Nats bullpen seems exhausted, and single off-days have not helped.

Seems to require something more drastic than structuring a bullpen the way everyone else does.

Online Slateman

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 Nothing about current pitching is sustainable. Thats why teams stockpile arms.

Online Slateman

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Why are we concerned that another team would claim him?  IMO that would be the ideal scenario.
And if Rainey turns it around next season, a returns to his pre-injury self? How are we going to take that next season when we are wishing for bullpen help?

Offline aspenbubba

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Why are we concerned that another team would claim him?  IMO that would be the ideal scenario.

Because simply Rizzo and the pitching coaches see redemptive value in Rainey and it is possible he could return to form.

Online Natsinpwc

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Because simply Rizzo and the pitching coaches see redemptive value in Rainey and it is possible he could return to form.
Isn’t he a free agent though after this year?

Online Slateman

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Isn’t he a free agent though after this year?
Nope. Free agent after next season.

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Offline rileyn

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This bullpen isn't going to last 9 more games in 9 days until the ASB.   What can be done about Weems and Rainey?  Gotta put them out there if they are 15% of our pitching staff.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Today is the test for Weems and Rainey
 Got to close this out over the last 3 with an 8 run lead

Offline GataNats

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Guy that needed to come up over Adon is Lasorsa.   He has been dominant this season

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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I suspect that happens after the Rutledge spot start

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Replace one washed up has been with another.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Replace one washed up has been with another.
but this time with feeling

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Why he played at Nats Park.
I'm guessing that's also why Carly Rae Jepsen is playing. Call me maybe could be about Davey's relievers.

Maybe they should get the rest of the Clash for the baserunning? Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Online Slateman

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but this time with feeling
*william shatner*

RePLACE one .... washed up .... has been ..... FOR .... ANOTHERRRRR

Online nobleisthyname

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Fangraphs' Ben Clemens on potential bullpen trade candidates for various selling teams as we approach the deadline:

Quote
After the Nations traded Hunter Harvey for a solid return, they are going to ask for a lot in exchange for Finnegan. I just don’t think teams will give Washington what it wants for him. Is he better than Estévez or Erceg? I don’t see it. He has a shiny ERA but he’s not missing a ton of bats. Harvey projects to be meaningfully better than Finnegan the rest of the season, and both are under club control next year, so there’s no difference there. I think the Nats are going to ask for a borderline Top 100 prospect, get rebuffed, and end up accepting a 40+ FV prospect that they particularly like. My guess is Finnegan will show up as one of the “deals of the deadline” lists but will generally underwhelm on his new team.

I’d be far more interested in Floro, one of the most underrated relievers in baseball. That sounds wild, right? What if I told you he has a career 3.26 ERA and 2.99 FIP over nearly 400 innings? You probably wouldn’t believe me, because he doesn’t strike anyone out. But he just does not let the ball leave the yard. He gets a ton of grounders, and he’s particularly appealing as a platoon-matchup guy; his sinker/slider attack is at its best against righties. Teams who want to play matchups in their bullpen will be blowing up Mike Rizzo’s phone over the coming weeks. I think there’s a decent chance that he ends up fetching more than Finnegan.

That leaves Garcia, who probably won’t get traded. Consider this a public service announcement: This guy is for real. His changeup is his best pitch, and it’s a real gem. The biggest thing holding him back is a so-so fastball — two-plane and without exciting velocity — but his changuep is so good that he’s still striking out a third of the batters he faces. I think the Nats are going to keep him around and see if he can be their closer of the future, but teams who like to tinker with fastball design would love to get their hands on him.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-rundown-of-relievers-on-the-trade-block/

His thoughts on Garcia are interesting. Likes him a lot.

Online Natsinpwc

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Silly analysis. Finnegan has been good for three years now. His WHIP is 1.017 this year.

Online nobleisthyname

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I don't think it's that off base. He's saying he thinks Finnegan would fetch a return around the level of Harvey, and I think that's probably accurate. I'd be plenty happy with that result.

Online Slateman

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I still feel like Garcia is a data darling, but maybe he can develop like Clippard did.

Finnegansm's peripherals indicate regression, but he always outperformed them. As long as he maintains his fastball velo, he can sustain this. Harvey has the better stuff, but Finnegan has mastered what he has. He feels like a Daniel Hudson type pickup, but I would expect him to go for less than Harvey.