Bullpen 2024 - Maybe this time it really will be a strength?

[Natsinpwc]

I don't think it's that off base. He's saying he thinks Finnegan would fetch a return around the level of Harvey, and I think that's probably accurate. I'd be plenty happy with that result.

If you really need a closer Finny is much more valuable. he has done it and done it well. 

[Slateman]

If you really need a closer Finny is much more valuable. he has done it and done it well. 

I think where is real value lies is that he can close but he can also pitch other innings. Right now, the Yankees and Orioles are probably wondering about their closer. Having a "backup" option would appeal to them.

[Natsinpwc]

I think where is real value lies is that he can close but he can also pitch other innings. Right now, the Yankees and Orioles are probably wondering about their closer. Having a "backup" option would appeal to them.

I can;t believe the Os are counting on Kimbrel for the playoffs after what happened to him last year.  Or maybe they plan another quick exit. 

[imref]

Finnegan seems like he would be a perfect fit in Baltimore. Dylan Beavers would be a nice return, but probably too much to ask without adding someone else from the Nats' system to the mix.

[Slateman]

I can;t believe the Os are counting on Kimbrel for the playoffs after what happened to him last year.  Or maybe they plan another quick exit. 

Its wild to me,  but honestly, I could totally see Elias buying that from a data/analytics standpoint.

Which is why I believe that closer is one of the hardest positions in sports. Yea, you're a great reliever, but the bottom of the 9th with a one run lead is a beast and just hits different.

[welch]

Its wild to me,  but honestly, I could totally see Elias buying that from a data/analytics standpoint.

Which is why I believe that closer is one of the hardest positions in sports. Yea, you're a great reliever, but the bottom of the 9th with a one run lead is a beast and just hits different.

Out of curiosity about Finnegan, and how long it too before he became a good closer for the Nats, I read through the Nats on Baseball Ref from 2020 until now.

The Nats got Finnegan about December, 2019, and he has pitched in bullpens with Hudson and Doolittle, Wander Suero, and a healthy Tanner Rainey in 2020, plus the unforgettable Dakota Bacus, Kyle McGowin, and Seth Romero. In 2021, Brad Hand closed in the beginning of the season, so I saw Hand blow saves at CitiField and Yankee Stadium. That season, he pitched alsongside Jefry Rodriguez, Gabe Klobosits, Suero, Sam Clay, and Austin Voth. In 2022, Finnegan and Tanner Rainey were closers, and the Nats used Steve Cishek, Carl Edwards, Jr, Victor Arano, Andres Machado, some Hunter Harvey and Jordan Weems. 

All those bullpens, and 2023, have names that should be attached to horror stories.

Conclusion? Teams use more and more relief pitchers, and all but a few are a mess. As Slate says, even fewer of those can close.

[imref]

Seems we have our Finnegan replacement already in the clubhouse.

Via TalkNats:

Ildemaro Vargas just lowered his #Nats career ERA to 2.25 that covers 4.0 innings over 3 seasons now. His 0.00 ERA in 2024 is the best on the Nats, and tied for the best in baseball.

[imref]

Davey says it’s time for Rainey to take on a bigger role.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

so Harvey and Floro got Wallace, Lomavita, and Chaparro.

[Senatorswin]

If you look at the top 25 relief pitchers in the blown saves category Finnegan is tied with a bunch of others with the least with 4. Of those 25 Finnegan is tied for the 4th most innings pitched. He has the most saves of the 25. The Nats have a few really ugly losses they should of won but I guess a lot of other teams have also.

https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/stats?category=pitching&season=2024&seasonType=reg&sort=bsv&sortOrder=desc

[imref]

i heard today Finnegan is the first Nat with 30 saves since Soriano. Haven't checked to confirm it.

[Elvir Ovcina]

i heard today Finnegan is the first Nat with 30 saves since Soriano. Haven't checked to confirm it.

Probably took Soriano 40 tries and the appearances took a combined 26 hours.  He's near the top of "Nationals to erase from history."   

[imref]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/tanner-rainey-is-the-lowest-leverage-reliever-in-baseball/

[Senatorswin]

Rainey should of started the ninth the game Finnegan blew the 4 run lead.

[welch]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/tanner-rainey-is-the-lowest-leverage-reliever-in-baseball/

The author, Leo Morgenstern, should watch some baseball games, rather than just numbers. At the very end of his aerticle, he seems to notice that Rainey had TJS and returned in time for exactly ONE game last year. Morgenstern seems not able to imagine that the Nats are slowly getting Rainey pitching again. He mentions that maybe the Nats hope that Rainey will recover some arm-strength and do not want to lose him, but Morgenstern seems convinced that the Nationals are keeping Rainey only out of a stupid loyalty to a pitcher who was effective a few years ago.

Morgenstern spends 99% of his article sneering at Rainey and the Nationals organization. Morgenstern is a chump.

[IanRubbish]

Bullpen ERA up to 4.20, 13th of 15 in the NL, and likely to get worse as starters throw fewer innings

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Bullpen ERA up to 4.20, 13th of 15 in the NL, and likely to get worse as starters throw fewer innings

probably has more to do with dealing Harvey and Floro. Although are hurt or not good lately, while they were here they outperformed what could be expected of Ribalta, Ferrer, etc... Only real addition by subtraction was Weems being DFA'd.

[GataNats]

probably has more to do with dealing Harvey and Floro. Although are hurt or not good lately, while they were here they outperformed what could be expected of Ribalta, Ferrer, etc... Only real addition by subtraction was Weems being DFA'd.

Both have been absolute trash.  Especially Floro, who was a fugazi

[IanRubbish]

probably has more to do with dealing Harvey and Floro.

Bullpen ERA was 2.30 over last 10 games, so probably more than that. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

I don't think JBarnes should be used again except in a mop up situation or long relief when behind big early. I've not been as down on him as many others have been, but he's become less effective 2d half and especially lately. More importantly, even if he was his typical slightly over 4 ERA, hard throwing, mostly ok for a low leverage role self like he was for the first 4 months or so, throwing him in situations like man on 2d, no outs, tied game, 1 run loses it (like extra innings last night) really would do next to nothing even if it works out OK. Barnes is not under team control for next year and is pretty old (34+, 35 next April). There's guys like Brzykcy and even Rainey who could contribute going forward (under team control) and have been pitching pretty well that Davey is reluctant to use who should be given a shot ahead of Barnes in game on the line situations.

Last night, I could understand why Finnegan wasn't in, and both Law and Ferrer have worked a lot lately. Similarly, Salazar had pitched 2 out of the prior 3 days, so I get why he wasn't turned to. Still, even if they failed, there's a lot more to be gained by exposing Rainey and Brzykcy to start the 10th than JBarnes.

Ranking the righties right now, in order of who should be used in the highest leverage, it's probably:

Finnegan
Law
Salazar
Rainey
Bzryckcy
Barnes

Barnes now should probably be the #9 guy in the pen.

[Senatorswin]

I don't think JBarnes should be used again except in a mop up situation or long relief when behind big early. I've not been as down on him as many others have been, but he's become less effective 2d half and especially lately. More importantly, even if he was his typical slightly over 4 ERA, hard throwing, mostly ok for a low leverage role self like he was for the first 4 months or so, throwing him in situations like man on 2d, no outs, tied game, 1 run loses it (like extra innings last night) really would do next to nothing even if it works out OK. Barnes is not under team control for next year and is pretty old (34+, 35 next April). There's guys like Brzykcy and even Rainey who could contribute going forward (under team control) and have been pitching pretty well that Davey is reluctant to use who should be given a shot ahead of Barnes in game on the line situations.

Last night, I could understand why Finnegan wasn't in, and both Law and Ferrer have worked a lot lately. Similarly, Salazar had pitched 2 out of the prior 3 days, so I get why he wasn't turned to. Still, even if they failed, there's a lot more to be gained by exposing Rainey and Brzykcy to start the 10th than JBarnes.

Ranking the righties right now, in order of who should be used in the highest leverage, it's probably:

Finnegan
Law
Salazar
Rainey
Bzryckcy
Barnes

Barnes now should probably be the #9 guy in the pen.

Agreed. At this point they should be using guys that will be here next year.

[Slateman]

Ranking the righties right now, in order of who should be used in the highest leverage, it's probably:

Finnegan
Law
Salazar
Rainey
Bzryckcy
Barnes

Barnes now should probably be the #9 guy in the pen.

At this point, I want to see Ferrer, Salazar, and Bzryckcy in high leverage situations. Need to figure out what they have.

[welch]

Bzryckcy ought to pitch more. He has thrown 3 2/3 innings, given up 5 runs. As several mentioned above, the Nats need to try several relievers, and Bzry has had the least of a trial. Ferer and Salazar have looked OK, and even "promising". And Rainey...he throws 95-96 instead of 99, but maybe he knows enough to be effective.

Law seems good enough and Barnes seems replaceable.

On the whole, the bullpen has been decent, and even a strength considering that the team traded Harvey and Floro. Better than it looked this time last year.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

ZB had that horrible 1st appearance then 3 shut down innings after that. No reason not  to try him some more.

I'd like it if we had 6 or so positions lined up for 2025 going into the offseason. Figure Finny, Ferrer, Law, and Salazar look like the favorites, with Garcia, ZB, Rainey, and La Sorsa all viable  (not a genius to figure this out: it's literally all of the current bullpen minus Barnes).

[Slateman]

ZB had that horrible 1st appearance then 3 shut down innings after that. No reason not  to try him some more.

I'd like it if we had 6 or so positions lined up for 2025 going into the offseason. Figure Finny, Ferrer, Law, and Salazar look like the favorites, with Garcia, ZB, Rainey, and La Sorsa all viable  (not a genius to figure this out: it's literally all of the current bullpen minus Barnes).

I dont think LaSorsa or Garcia are viable. I think the Nats could fill those spots with a couple free agents, one of which has high leverage potential.