Author Topic: Auditions for the infield  (Read 3287 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Auditions for the infield
« on: August 18, 2023, 08:39:23 am »
This is a a GataNats inspired thread. His persistent questioning of why play a vet like Vargas brings out the issue of who should be playing in the infield down the stretch, particularly 2nd and 3rd.

Assume that CJ gets the bulk of the playing time at SS due to his performance and the expectation that he's the team's SS going forward. It's probably worth discussing 1st base, too, but that is a separate group of players (Dom, Joey, Riley Adams, Ruiz, Travis Blankenhorn, Chavis, maybe some others).

As for 2nd and 3rd, the players are pretty much a mix of Vargas, Alu, Chavis, Downs, and probably Baker at some point. They offer a mix of steadiness, upside, defensive skill, and current offensive performance. Right now, it looks like Alu is getting the primary look at 2nd while Vargas is playing most of the time at 3rd.

Vargas is doing very much Vargas things - a vet filling in for another vet who is no longer on the team after the trade deadline (Franco last year, Candy this year), providing above-average defense (positive UZR/150, OAA, DRS, etc...), not striking out, providing below average pop for a 3rd baseman. Last year, he steadied the infield, which helped the pitching down the stretch, and he's pretty much doing the same. His average and OBP are down, due mostly to really bad BABIP (.240) that, even by his below-average career rate (.279 in his years with the most playing time, ,259 overall) is low. If one of the big goals of this year is to develop the young pitching, he probably helps them by making plays; he may also help CJ a bit by taking care of some balls at the fringe of his range. However, if the goal is to see whether we have some team-controlled pieces for future competitive teams, playing him at 3rd means one of Alu, Chavis, or Downs is on the bench, two if Baker is up and playing.

Downs is probably the easiest to pass over based on track record, but would it be absurd to say he has the most upside of all the others? Is he a guy you feed playing time to after every successful appearance? It'd be crazy if he could somehow establish himself at the MLB level. I'm a huge skeptic.

Baker is a couple of years younger than Alu (and Kieboom) and 3 years younger than Chavis. Since the start of 2022, Baker has had at least 190 PAs at 3 levels (Wilmington, Harrisburg, and Rochester), with a batting average ranging from .273 to .290. Currently he's .282 for the year and at .261 since returning to AAA on 7/7. Subpar power (ISO <.100 at those 3 levels). Walks around average, K% < 20%. Has been exposed to left field this year but is primarily a 2nd baseman. The FG review of his defense is pretty neutral:
Quote
He is already a mixed bag at second base, with below-average hands, arm strength, and slow-twitch athleticism, relying on his elegant body control and predictably great on-field awareness to succeed. Baker will make some highlight reel plays because of his effort and acrobatic flare, but he’s an average overall defender.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/washington-nationals-top-31-prospects-2023/ Needs to be added to the 40 man roster this off-season. Lots of praise for his contact skills and low swinging strikes in the same article.

Alu might be the least "toolsy" of the bunch. He's getting the bulk of the PT at 2nd now. He's 26 this year. While he showed a bit of pop last year in the minors, it was mostly gone in 2023 AAA. Really good contact skills and decent walk rate in the minors that has not shown up in the majors yet. Being groomed as a 3 position utility guy.

Chavis is the oldest of the group at 27. He's had almost 1200 PAs in the majors (more than Vargas, who is 4 years older). Homer every 30 PAs is his track record, with a low average, near 30% K&, and below average BBs. Not a bad baserunner, has played 1st as well. Unlike Downs, Alu, and Baker, he has 3+ years of service time and therefore is arb eligible.

My inclination at this point would be to continue to play Alu and probably play Vargas. There's no upside to Chavis, and if there were a need to create roster space, he'd be the one I'd say bye to. There's a Baker fan club here, and I definitely want to add him to the 40 man roster this off-season, but I also think he might benefit from more time in the high minors. Adding some strength might give him a little extra pop. I'd also play him some in left field, which he can do in AAA. That leaves Downs. Kid has gotten more breaks than his performance probably deserves, but if I were to take playing time from Vargas, I'd probably play Downs at 2nd and Alu at his natural position, 3rd base. I don't think the defense would suffer much, which is a big chunk of why Vargas is playing. I more or less want to see if this is a guy worthy of keeping in the system. I would sacrifice a few wins to see whether something clicks. To me, he's a little like Garrett in that you dole out more playing time as he succeeds.

Offline imref

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2023, 10:55:37 am »
Kieboom has probably earned a look at third over the final month of the season, with Alu at 2nd.

Online nobleisthyname

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2023, 10:57:13 am »
I seem to remember Alu's defense at 3rd being hyped up quite a bit last season in the minors. Was this mostly attributable to the naturally large fluctuations in defensive metrics and he's actually more average than plus?

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2023, 11:24:27 am »
I seem to remember Alu's defense at 3rd being hyped up quite a bit last season in the minors. Was this mostly attributable to the naturally large fluctuations in defensive metrics and he's actually more average than plus?
On the Phillies broadcast last week they noted that Alu had the most defensive runs saved in the minor leagues for an infielder this year.  Rojas of the Phillies has the most for an outfielder.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2023, 11:26:14 am »
Is Vargas defense at 3B considered above average? That’s the only reason I see. Like Dom at 1B.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2023, 11:28:13 am »
I seem to remember Alu's defense at 3rd being hyped up quite a bit last season in the minors. Was this mostly attributable to the naturally large fluctuations in defensive metrics and he's actually more average than plus?
I'm not sure he's gotten much attention from writers other than Longenhagen, so I'd shop around for other opinions. He doesn't have the glove vibe, but he's a deceiving player, starting with being a low-round senior draftee. FWIW, he has positive ratings at 2B so far in a very limited sample in MLB.

I also agree Kieboom perhaps deserves a shot if he's healthy and can sustain some performance.

I guess I'm just not with Gata at this point that anyone else on the active roster should be playing instead of Vargas and unlike others I don't feel Baker is the being blocked yet.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2023, 11:33:47 am »
Is Vargas defense at 3B considered above average? That’s the only reason I see. Like Dom at 1B.
numbers say yes. You might say small samples, but over 550+ innings the past 2 years, he's pretty positive at 3rd by just about any metric. He's not good at shortstop, and hasn't played much 2nd recently, but at 3rd he seems to be above average to good.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2023, 12:28:07 pm »
There is simply no reason to have Chavis, Smith, and Vargas on the squad at this point, much less getting substantial playing time. Multiple minor leaguers are showing capabilities and deserve an oppprtunity for an extended try out

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2023, 12:50:01 pm »
There is simply no reason to have Chavis, Smith, and Vargas on the squad at this point, much less getting substantial playing time. Multiple minor leaguers are showing capabilities and deserve an oppprtunity for an extended try out
I do think there's something to having some decent d in the infield when you have 3 young pitchers in the rotation. Smith saves errors and Vargas fields well.  There's no question the team looked a ton better in 2022 after the deadline when Franco was cut and Vargas took over 3rd. I don't think Baker is ready yet (subtle suggesting that posting after every 2 for 5 doesn't change his lack of power and OBP). There's more value in looking at Alu at second right now. Who really deserves more of a look?  Maybe Kieboom when he gets more games in after his surgery? As for Smith, there's a season of control still, but yes, giving Ruiz and Adams more at bats at least at DH and playing Meneses is woth a look. As for D, Meneses is < Smith but > Bell, so I'm fine with that. Chavis? I'd rather see Downs get his opportunities.

Heh, Heh - this thread's got legs

Offline GataNats

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2023, 03:56:33 pm »
I do think there's something to having some decent d in the infield when you have 3 young pitchers in the rotation. Smith saves errors and Vargas fields well.  There's no question the team looked a ton better in 2022 after the deadline when Franco was cut and Vargas took over 3rd. I don't think Baker is ready yet (subtle suggesting that posting after every 2 for 5 doesn't change his lack of power and OBP). There's more value in looking at Alu at second right now. Who really deserves more of a look?  Maybe Kieboom when he gets more games in after his surgery? As for Smith, there's a season of control still, but yes, giving Ruiz and Adams more at bats at least at DH and playing Meneses is woth a look. As for D, Meneses is < Smith but > Bell, so I'm fine with that. Chavis? I'd rather see Downs get his opportunities.

Heh, Heh - this thread's got legs

Chavis is 28, Vargas is 32.   No reason for either of then to be playing, but Vargas much more so than Chavis.   Vargas is not good at all defensively.   Slow, average arm

Only one out of the 3 I’m not going to complain about is Dom.  He is really good defensively, and the team leader at OBP

Offline KV

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2023, 04:45:56 pm »
Have we given up on Garcia?

Offline Five Banners

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2023, 04:54:56 pm »
Have we given up on Garcia?

Thought you were talking about Robert Garcia for a moment. As for Luis, this doesn’t seem the worst time for him to be provided a different perspective from which he could learn

Offline imref

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2023, 05:19:13 pm »
Luis is struggling at aaa. Last 15: . 216   .231   .294

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2023, 05:42:46 pm »
Luis is struggling at aaa. Last 15: . 216   .231   .294
where is Baker playing now that Luis is in AAA?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2023, 05:49:23 pm »
Chavis is 28, Vargas is 32.   No reason for either of then to be playing, but Vargas much more so than Chavis.   Vargas is not good at all defensively.   Slow, average arm

Only one out of the 3 I’m not going to complain about is Dom.  He is really good defensively, and the team leader at OBP
you and I will disagree on IV's d at 3rd, but I don't disagree that he's nothing more than a backup. I guess another thing we disagree on is whether giving him playing time stops us from finding something out about a potential regular or useful piece. Downs should get Chavis's reps.

Offline imref

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2023, 06:23:04 pm »
where is Baker playing now that Luis is in AAA?
LF the last few games

Offline GataNats

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2023, 11:00:15 pm »
I swear Davey’s favorite movie is Draft Day.  He goes into his office every day, takes the Post-It note out of his pocket.   It reads “Vargas everyday.  No matter what!”

Offline imref

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2023, 11:59:07 pm »
I swear Davey’s favorite movie is Draft Day.  He goes into his office every day, takes the Post-It note out of his pocket.   It reads “Vargas everyday.   No matter what!”

He’s our Ohtani. Pitcher and hitter 😀

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2023, 10:18:08 am »
Kieboom has probably earned a look at third over the final month of the season, with Alu at 2nd.
winner! totally missed discussing him in the opening post, but that's the direction they've decided to go in. Rather than spotting in Downs, they have kept Kieboom up and let Downs get reps in Rochester.

Yankees start the next series with a LHP, Carlos Rodon. I imagine Kieboom starts and Chavis or Vargas starts at 2nd.

After that, it's Severino and Cole, so Kieboom may be back on the bench and the Nats would go with the Vargas / Alu line-up.

I think Kieboom breaks in against lefties, somewhat like they handled Garrett after Dickerson was released. If he clicks, he gets chances against RHP, first by not pinch-hitting for him, then with some starts.


Offline Slateman

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Re: Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2023, 12:20:55 pm »
winner! totally missed discussing him in the opening post, but that's the direction they've decided to go in. Rather than spotting in Downs, they have kept Kieboom up and let Downs get reps in Rochester.

Yankees start the next series with a LHP, Carlos Rodon. I imagine Kieboom starts and Chavis or Vargas starts at 2nd.

After that, it's Severino and Cole, so Kieboom may be back on the bench and the Nats would go with the Vargas / Alu line-up.

I think Kieboom breaks in against lefties, somewhat like they handled Garrett after Dickerson was released. If he clicks, he gets chances against RHP, first by not pinch-hitting for him, then with some starts.


Kieboom will totally look better on the bench than Downs

Offline Slateman

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2023, 03:04:43 pm »
Apparently, Vargas must play

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2023, 03:21:38 pm »
Apparently, Vargas must play

Yankees start the next series with a LHP, Carlos Rodon. I imagine Kieboom starts and Chavis or Vargas starts at 2nd.

After that, it's Severino and Cole, so Kieboom may be back on the bench and the Nats would go with the Vargas / Alu line-up.

it's him or Chavis. Davey still platooning at 2nd.  It'll be interesting if Kieboom starts to play vs. righties a bit and they break the platoons.


Offline Slateman

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2023, 03:44:21 pm »
Okay, so, I'm on vacation, and I'm drunk, but what the actual freak. Why is Vargas playing AT ALL!?!? He's 32. He is not a part of this team's future.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2023, 03:54:28 pm »
Okay, so, I'm on vacation, and I'm drunk, but what the actual freak. Why is Vargas playing AT ALL!?!? He's 32. He is not a part of this team's future.
no coronations for Crown Prince Kieboom. He has to earn his playing time by first hitting the lefties and showing he can field. This isn't 2020 anymore. As for Commoner Alu, he too needs to rake a bit to play against lefties. Vargas is the Jerry Quarry of the infield. He's the guy you need to beat to become a contender.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Auditions for the infield
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2023, 04:03:02 pm »
no coronations for Crown Prince Kieboom. He has to earn his playing time by first hitting the lefties and showing he can field. This isn't 2020 anymore. As for Commoner Alu, he too needs to rake a bit to play against lefties. Vargas is the Jerry Quarry of the infield. He's the guy you need to beat to become a contender.

I mean how the freak is Vargas starting? Dude has to have pics of Davey