Trade aquisitions 2023

[JCA-CrystalCity]

thought I'd start a thread about the guys we end up getting in deals rather than burying the info in the more general "approach" thread or in the threads about players leaving the organization.

In exchange for "the best third baseman available," we receive:

In return, the Cubs give up two legitimate prospects, though neither stood in the upper echelons of the team’s farm system. In our prospect rankings (which went live for the Cubs just a few weeks ago, so you should really check them out), Herz ranked 19th in the system, and Made was 22nd. Both players have some real upside for the Nats, but it’s not at all like trading Hayden Wesneski or Kevin Alcántara, let alone someone like the just-promoted (to Triple-A) Pete Crow-Armstrong.

The ZiPS projections don’t really go against the scouting community on this one, pegging Made as 1.5-WAR-ish shortstop at his peak with lines in the .250/.330/.360 range. The computer does still have hope that Herz can tame his command issues and gives him a good shot at being an acceptable fourth/fifth starter at some point. A bullpen conversion might help with the control, though I’m not overly hopeful that a changeup specialist with iffy command and unimpressive velocity will be all that scary in the late innings. For now, Made and Herz slot in at 12th and 18th, respectively, in Washington’s system.

For the Nats, signing Candelario was always about hoping to flip him at the deadline after a comeback season, and that’s just what they did. Whether the return for playing him at third for a year was worth not looking at Jake Alu when healthy or any other candidate that could plausibly be part of the next good team in Washington, we’ll have to wait a few years to find out. For the Cubs, ZiPS now has them as the best rest-of-season team in the NL Central by a very slight margin, though it’s close enough that they may simply run out of pages on the calendar.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mr-hoyer-in-the-conservatory-with-the-candelario-stick/

If one of these guys end up a contributor, either in the bullpen or as a defensive infielder, then I suppose that's OK. More than that, and it is a decent move to have brought Candy in and flip him.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

A link to the prospect write ups in FG:  https://blogs.fangraphs.com/chicago-cubs-top-52-prospects-2023/

##19 & 22. 40+ FV.  Made has a "puncher's chance" at being a regular after making a lot strides in plate discipline and with potential power.  Change up is Herz's best pitch.

[raleighnat]

A little underwhelming but the market is the market. 

[bluestreak]

A little underwhelming but the market is the market.

I think it is a decent return for a rental.

[DCsOwn]

I think it is a decent return for a rental.

Law's thought on the return:

"Candelario’s a free agent after the season, and the Nats got him after Detroit designated him for assignment in November, so landing two interesting prospects for him is a coup for Washington, even more so if Made turns into a regular."

https://theathletic.com/4737716/2023/07/31/jeimer-candelario-cubs-nationals-roster-hole/

[DCsOwn]

With that said, I probably would've went to the market with Thomas and Candelario as a package deal to boost the return if I were Rizzo (and perhaps he did and didn't find any serious takers for that type of package).

[Slateman]

With that said, I probably would've went to the market with Thomas and Candelario as a package deal to boost the return if I were Rizzo (and perhaps he did and didn't find any serious takers for that type of package).

I think its pretty obvious he didnt. There were several reports that Rizzo valued Lane Thomas as an everyday player, but everyone else valued him as a platoon bat.

[blue911]

The only way Lane Thomas can help a contending team is as a platoon player. That doesn’t mean he can’t start for a second division club,just a sub .700 OPS against righties won’t work for a good team.

[nobleisthyname]

Feels a little underwhelming, but only because this felt like a major seller's market so I was hoping for a bit of an overpay. The value seems fair in a vacuum. And definitely a success compared to last year's reclamation projects. Depth in the farm system is important too.

[welch]

Made seems like the best prospect SS already. The system is thin, with Cluff the regular SS at Harrisburg, and Jordy Barley at Wilmington, and Jeter Downs (?) at Rochester. Armando Cruz is a year younger than Made but seems unable to hit at Fredericksburg.

[DCsOwn]

I think its pretty obvious he didnt. There were several reports that Rizzo valued Lane Thomas as an everyday player, but everyone else valued him as a platoon bat.

This is likely correct, I was simply being charitable with the added qualifier. Point remains that I would've made both available and tried to add a prospect or two with more ceiling. Not really mad at the return for Candy in isolation though and who knows, perhaps Rizzo pulls a rabbit out of his hat with respect to Thomas today (or maybe Thomas proves him correct and has more established value this time next season).

[Slateman]

The only way Lane Thomas can help a contending team is as a platoon player. That doesn’t mean he can’t start for a second division club,just a sub .700 OPS against righties won’t work for a good team.

A team contending for a playoff spot? Lane Thomas is an upgrade (as am everyday player) for the Blue Jays, Guardians, Yankees, and Twins.

Since May first, Thomas has a .753 OPS against RHP. Mike Rizzo is 100% correct in valuing him as an everyday player. Opposing GMs are simply trying to buy low.

[DCsOwn]

https://twitter.com/D0M006/status/1686149712632528897?s=20

The swing ain't ugly, I'll say that much.

[Natsinpwc]

A team contending for a playoff spot? Lane Thomas is an upgrade (as am everyday player) for the Blue Jays, Guardians, Yankees, and Twins.

Since May first, Thomas has a .753 OPS against RHP. Mike Rizzo is 100% correct in valuing him as an everyday player. Opposing GMs are simply trying to buy low.

Phillies are allegedly looking at Duvall and Pham so they might be interested. Cost for Thomas might be too high. I think they just know they will sink or swim on their big dollar players hitting better. They could use another reliever also as Dominguez has not looked good after coming back from injury and Alvarado is still on the IL.  So maybe Finnegan is in play for them.

[Natsinpwc]

Made seems like the best prospect SS already. The system is thin, with Cluff the regular SS at Harrisburg, and Jordy Barley at Wilmington, and Jeter Downs (?) at Rochester. Armando Cruz is a year younger than Made but seems unable to hit at Fredericksburg.

Well that’s a low bar.  But he does seem like a decent pickup. 

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Phillies are allegedly looking at Duvall and Pham so they might be interested. Cost for Thomas might be too high. I think they just know they will sink or swim on their big dollar players hitting better. They could use another reliever also as Dominguez has not looked good after coming back from injury and Alvarado is still on the IL.  So maybe Finnegan is in play for them.

If there's a choice, then I don't want to move Thomas or Finnegan in the division. Duvall and Pham work well for them.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

The only way Lane Thomas can help a contending team is as a platoon player. That doesn’t mean he can’t start for a second division club,just a sub .700 OPS against righties won’t work for a good team.

A team contending for a playoff spot? Lane Thomas is an upgrade (as am everyday player) for the Blue Jays, Guardians, Yankees, and Twins.

Since May first, Thomas has a .753 OPS against RHP. Mike Rizzo is 100% correct in valuing him as an everyday player. Opposing GMs are simply trying to buy low.

I'm mostly with Blue911 on this. I think there's room for him to take on a larger role even with a contender, but the ones who will be most interested are the ones who view him as a guy who mashes lefties and need the line up balance.  The Yankees are already pretty right-handed, so I don't think the fit there is as good as other contenders. I really do think the Twins could use him and have been saying it for weeks.  I suspect Thomas may be behind Teoscar Hernandez as a target for the Jays and a few other teams.  As for the Guardians, he would come in as a righty bat but I think they may be curious about riding a decent streak v. righties as well as Thomas's years of control years of control.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Golden provides a take on Made and Herz

The Cubs selected Herz in the eighth round of the 2019 draft out of a North Carolina high school and then went well over slot to sign him — and convince him not to attend the University of North Carolina. He has a 3.97 ERA in 14 starts at Class AA this season. He has impressive strikeout numbers — 12.2 per nine innings — but also has walked 5.6 per nine, so he will need better command to be effective at the major league level. He gets a lot of swings-and-misses, primarily relying on a low- to mid-90s fastball and a deceptive change-up while mixing in a slider. MLB.com ranked him the Cubs’ No. 16 prospect.

Made, a native of the Dominican Republic, signed with the Cubs for $1.5 million in 2019 but didn’t make his debut in pro ball until 2021 amid the coronavirus pandemic. This season, he’s hitting .240 with a .328 on-base percentage and a .355 slugging percentage in his first full season in high Class A. He is young for the level, but he has struck out in just 18 percent of his plate appearances while walking in 10 percent. He is considered a gifted defender who could play all over the diamond in a utility role; MLB.com ranked him the Cubs’ No. 14 prospect.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/07/31/jeimer-candelario-traded-cubs-nationals/

While Made has gotten more of the attention, does anyone else feel that somehow getting Herz for a rental kind of fits?

[Natsinpwc]

Golden provides a take on Made and Herz
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/07/31/jeimer-candelario-traded-cubs-nationals/

While Made has gotten more of the attention, does anyone else feel that somehow getting Herz for a rental kind of fits?

Yes. Team needs arms. Even those with funky deliveries and control issues.

[Natsinpwc]

If there's a choice, then I don't want to move Thomas or Finnegan in the division. Duvall and Pham work well for them.

Rizzo looking for revenge for the Papelbon/Pivetta trade! 

[imref]

Golden noted both are rule five eligible after this year

[nobleisthyname]

Golden noted both are rule five eligible after this year

Curious if that will lead to any 40-man squeeze.

[Slateman]

I cant fathom not moving Finnegan or Menses for whatever you can get for them

[Natsinpwc]

I cant fathom not moving Finnegan or Menses for whatever you can get for them

Seems like they want to pretend to be competitive next year.  Wonder if they will really try in the off-season. Probably best to tank next year and shoot for 2025. But it’s a shrinking STH base. 

[Slateman]

Seems like they want to pretend to be competitive next year.  Wonder if they will really try in the off-season. Probably best to tank next year and shoot for 2025. But it’s a shrinking STH base. 

Thats the part that gets me. If they were going to actually be competitive, fine. Or even try to be. But I dont see ownership paying for a Jordan Montgomery and Rhys Hopkins.