Austin Voth - Blown away by all the data

[Slateman]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dougherty_jesse/status/1547960150610157568?s=21&t=25OWDCWQL-12CVlGCA_Lpg

Austin Voth to
@JesseRogersESPN
: "I was kind of blown away by all the data that they have here: The video guys and how they can break down stats and pitches. And individually things for each pitcher. That was big for me."

Every story I’ve written about the Nationals’ marginal advancements in data and tech have had the following qualifiers: They’re late and still leave a lot of room for improvement. And data, video, etc. needs to be accompanied by organizational culture shift.

Good for Voth. Not why I posted it here.

What the actual hell. Its pretty telling that the Orioles are that far ahead of the Nationals in the player development aspect.

2012-2019 was great. 2019 was amazing. But the game has passed Rizzo by.

[UMDNats]

Hey, we don't need information, or data, or video coaching, we have 91-year-old Jack McKeon advising RIZ. Just a few more Diamondbacks alums in here and we'll get it figured out.

[imref]

And the Phillies have been an under achieving team that fired its manager. So there’s that.

[Mattionals]

I don't necessarily want to crap can Rizzo, but I want new ownership to be adamant that the organization needs an overhaul, and if I was spending all that money, we are overhauling it.

[Slateman]

I don't necessarily want to crap can Rizzo, but I want new ownership to be adamant that the organization needs an overhaul, and if I was spending all that money, we are overhauling it.

Then you gotta get rid of Rizzo. This is the opposite of the approach that Rizzo takes. Go find one of Andrew Friedman or Peter Bendix's senior execs and make them the President of Baseball Operations for the Nationals.

Old school scouting is great, but its pretty easy to come by in baseball.

[UMDNats]

It's always nice to look at our baseball front office size vs. others, notably in Baseball Research:

https://www.mlb.com/rays/team/front-office

https://www.mlb.com/nationals/team/front-office

JDP is a legit stud at international scouting and running that side of the front office but literally everywhere else is a total disaster.

[PowerBoater69]

Back in January 2020 Voth made similar comments about how data analytics were helping him out. Whatever he tweeked to help him with the Os won't last long, AL teams will figure him out quickly enough.

@dougherty_jesse
Voth made some interesting points today about how a sample size of big-league data really helped him this winter. It gave him a new and effective way to break himself down with tape + numbers. He says he learned a lot about his slider. Should be cool to track that.

[PowerBoater69]

The quote from Dougherty about how he has been ringning the alarm about the Nats being behind in data and tech is bullcrap, I searched his Twitter history and he never made a single critical mention of the team. Just the opposite, he defended the Nats when Kolko made critical statements about the analytics team.

[machpost]

Last November, Rizzo was raving about the new data guy they brought in, calling him a "genius." https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/11/12/lee-mendelowitz-nationals-research-development/

[UMDNats]

The quote from Dougherty about how he has been ringning the alarm about the Nats being behind in data and tech is bullcrap, I searched his Twitter history and he never made a single critical mention of the team. Just the opposite, he defended the Nats when Kolko made critical statements about the analytics team.

Jesse D wrote a piece on how DeJon Watson was going to bring fresh insight and a focus on data

[Smithian]

Didn’t I read we kept Voth ran due to analytics on his breaking stuff?

[Slateman]

Didn’t I read we kept Voth ran due to analytics on his breaking stuff?

Yes. The Nationals staff recognized that he had good stuff but couldnt unlock it.

[Section214]

It's always nice to look at our baseball front office size vs. others, notably in Baseball Research:

https://www.mlb.com/rays/team/front-office

https://www.mlb.com/nationals/team/front-office

JDP is a legit stud at international scouting and running that side of the front office but literally everywhere else is a total disaster.

This is very interesting and usually a discrepancy in staff you see between a major NCAA football program like Alabama and a JV program like UVA.

It's kind of hard to tell what everyone with the Rays does, but it almost seems like the Nationals have a much larger group dedicated to scouting and then the analytics and baseball systems side of it is wildly lopsided in the other direction.

[blue911]

I expect Rizzo and Martinez will be gone with a change in ownership but not before. Hickey has to go now he’s just as guilty as Rizzo if not more so. The Nats web site list about a dozen people in the analytics dept.

[welch]

Voth can have all the data in the world. He can watch video of everything. He has never has never been able to execute a pitch. Analytics cannot throw for him.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Voth can have all the data in the world. He can watch video of everything. He has never has never been able to execute a pitch. Analytics cannot throw for him.

other than what he's been doing in Baltimore, which moved him back to starting.  3.50 ERA.  Building up his inning load, now up to 5 IP in his last start.

[Slateman]

Voth can have all the data in the world. He can watch video of everything. He has never has never been able to execute a pitch. Analytics cannot throw for him.

No, but teams that understand analytics can use them to fix and improve pitchers. Changing grips, spin, release point, hip load, footwork ... all of these can be changed through analytics

[Natsinpwc]

No, but teams that understand analytics can use them to fix and improve pitchers. Changing grips, spin, release point, hip load, footwork ... all of these can be changed through analytics

I think it would be more proper to say analytics gives you the data but ultimately the pitcher needs to make physical changes. Using that data. It’s good stuff but we have had video tape of guys for years. Good pitching coaches can see problems in the tape. Some pitchers are able to make changes and some are not.

[Natsinpwc]

21 innings pitched in Baltimore is a real small sample size. Let’s see if he can keep it up. 

[Slateman]

I think it would be more proper to say analytics gives you the data but ultimately the pitcher needs to make physical changes. Using that data. It’s good stuff but we have had video tape of guys for years. Good pitching coaches can see problems in the tape. Some pitchers are able to make changes and some are not.

Analytics guides those changes. It does it far more effectively than an old pitching coach. Thats why the Nats are in shambles right now.

[Natsinpwc]

Voth was actually down to a 3.00 ERA before his last two starts when it has risen to 3.80. He is regressing to his mean methinks.

[Natsinpwc]

Analytics guides those changes. It does it far more effectively than an old pitching coach. Thats why the Nats are in shambles right now.

They are in shambles because Corbin is bad and Strasburg cannot pitch.  And they made no attempt to sign any decent starters for this season. The only veteran relievers signed were Cishek who has been meh and Doolittle who has been hurt.  They made no attempt to be competitive. Leaving Clippard on the minors up until now is an indication of that.

I would fire Hickey as he seems to bring nothing.

[Kevrock]

It's not just data like SABR data and stats. It's biomechanical analysis and the stuff that driveline baseball has been doing. It's not even new at this point.

This is pretty damning tbh. I've been a Rizzo defender but we should not be behind other clubs like this.

[PowerBoater69]

Can we add a poll? Odds that Voth is still with the Os when they come to Nats Park in September. I'd say that the crash and burn happens beforehand.

[Slateman]

They are in shambles because Corbin is bad and Strasburg cannot pitch.  And they made no attempt to sign any decent starters for this season. The only veteran relievers signed were Cishek who has been meh and Doolittle who has been hurt.  They made no attempt to be competitive. Leaving Clippard on the minors up until now is an indication of that.

I would fire Hickey as he seems to bring nothing.

Why is Corbin bad? Other teams were interested in Corbin in the offseason. Why were they? Why can no one they call up be even remotely decent when every team with a good development system is able to reach in to their farm system and bring up someone to pitch?

This goes way beyond a pitching coach.

It's not just data like SABR data and stats. It's biomechanical analysis and the stuff that driveline baseball has been doing. It's not even new at this point.

This is pretty damning tbh. I've been a Rizzo defender but we should not be behind other clubs like this.

Bingo. The Nats have done none of this. Tim Cate is still struggling to hit 91 on the gun the second time through the order. Two thirds of teams in baseball would have had him re-doing his mechanics to improve velo or converted him to a reliever by now.

Honestly, the Nats philosophy for pitching development seems to be to hope they figure it out on their own