Author Topic: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam  (Read 485 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline welch

  • Posts: 14181
  • 2019: Won the fight
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #25: August 02, 2021, 06:49:05 PM »
They keep injured pitchers around because they are under contract. Why should they sign a guy if their doctors think he is damaged goods?  Yo make everyone feel nice?

DiComa for MLB.com wrote: "Simply put, team officials believed Rocker’s injury issues were serious enough to value a future pick more than him -- this was not simply a matter of a player needing Tommy John surgery, like Mets second-rounder J.T. Ginn did in 2020. (The Mets selected Ginn despite that injury, and he is now their fifth-ranked prospect.)"

Rocker is suffering from something worse than needing TJ surgery? Such as?

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 58783
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #26: August 02, 2021, 06:57:07 PM »
The Mets specifically drafted guys they new they could sign underslot after they drafted Rocker. They also have had zero problems signing guys needing TJS.

This has to be something more. That Boras is talking about "independent medical evaluations" should further cement that Rocker hid an injury and either doesnt want to be evaluated or there is a disagreement over treatment

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20845
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #27: August 02, 2021, 07:43:14 PM »
They keep injured pitchers around because they are under contract. Why should they sign a guy if their doctors think he is damaged goods?  Yo make everyone feel nice?

Because they drafted him? Hey kid, nice that you want to start your career, but you actually have to wait until next year because your potential employer won’t hire you and other employers aren’t allowed to. If other teams were scared off, then the Mets knew what they were getting into and drafted him anyway. They’re the same joke they were under the Wilpons.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 58783
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #28: August 02, 2021, 08:17:36 PM »
Because they drafted him? Hey kid, nice that you want to start your career, but you actually have to wait until next year because your potential employer won’t hire you and other employers aren’t allowed to. If other teams were scared off, then the Mets knew what they were getting into and drafted him anyway. They’re the same joke they were under the Wilpons.
But they didnt know because Rocker didnt participate in the pre-draft medical exchange. The other teams passed on him due to the drop off in velo. Mets didnt and are passing after discovering why he had a drop off in velo.

The Wilpons would have signed him anyway, let him wait two years to have TJS, then he would have got it and been out a year and change, and then have to add him to the 40 man roster while he was still getting innings in High A ball.

Offline nfotiu

  • Posts: 4378
  • Juan Soto aka Human Wildcat
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #29: August 02, 2021, 09:42:16 PM »
Because they drafted him? Hey kid, nice that you want to start your career, but you actually have to wait until next year because your potential employer won’t hire you and other employers aren’t allowed to. If other teams were scared off, then the Mets knew what they were getting into and drafted him anyway. They’re the same joke they were under the Wilpons.
It sounds like there might have been some Boras influence too, and he wasn't going to let him sign for less money.  And also Boras says there is no medical issue.

Offline bluestreak

  • Posts: 10987
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #30: August 03, 2021, 02:26:52 AM »
Boras talked about independent medical professionals examining him. Who hired them? Would have to be Boras which means they are not independent.

I am not under the illusion that shady doctors don’t exist. But I think it would be weird for a reputable orthopedic surgeon to put his or her name on a fraudulent report in a case so high profile.

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 20575
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #31: August 03, 2021, 08:39:02 AM »
I am not under the illusion that shady doctors don’t exist. But I think it would be weird for a reputable orthopedic surgeon to put his or her name on a fraudulent report in a case so high profile.
But then the same goes for the Mets doctors.  I guess it’s just a difference of opinion.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32749
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #32: August 03, 2021, 10:39:35 AM »
They keep injured pitchers around because they are under contract. Why should they sign a guy if their doctors think he is damaged goods?  Yo make everyone feel nice?
nats signed Giolito knowing he was likely to be heading to TJ.  I think that was a 16th pick or so. Rocker slid to #11. Maybe he slides by the Mets and gets taken a few picks later by another team knowing the risk. 

Offline Mattionals

  • Posts: 5027
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #33: August 03, 2021, 11:48:03 AM »
nats signed Giolito knowing he was likely to be heading to TJ.  I think that was a 16th pick or so. Rocker slid to #11. Maybe he slides by the Mets and gets taken a few picks later by another team knowing the risk.

It does seem weird though, right? TJS is something that has had quite a high success rate. Many players have been drafted knowing they needed TJS, like you said with Giolito. If the Mets are balking at the price to sign a guy to TJS, that seems really stupid. As others have noted, their has to be something else with his elbow (if the reports are to be believed) that TJS can't fix. It's kinda like how R.A. Dickey didn't have an UCL in his pitching elbow. It scared people away and he still ended up being a very productive big league pitcher.

Offline Natsinpwc

  • Posts: 20575
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #34: August 03, 2021, 12:22:25 PM »
It does seem weird though, right? TJS is something that has had quite a high success rate. Many players have been drafted knowing they needed TJS, like you said with Giolito. If the Mets are balking at the price to sign a guy to TJS, that seems really stupid. As others have noted, their has to be something else with his elbow (if the reports are to be believed) that TJS can't fix. It's kinda like how R.A. Dickey didn't have an UCL in his pitching elbow. It scared people away and he still ended up being a very productive big league pitcher.
Well yeah with a knuckleball. You don’t sign a first round pick to throw knuckleballs.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 58783
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #35: August 03, 2021, 12:23:46 PM »
nats signed Giolito knowing he was likely to be heading to TJ.  I think that was a 16th pick or so. Rocker slid to #11. Maybe he slides by the Mets and gets taken a few picks later by another team knowing the risk. 
Nats also got to look at the medicals before the draft. Rocker didn't share his.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32749
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #36: August 03, 2021, 01:19:21 PM »
Nats also got to look at the medicals before the draft. Rocker didn't share his.
Some of this is Rocker's fault.  What did he think?  His elbow would slip by, unnoticed? Got to be transparent about the elbow before the draft to avoid a team taking him and walking away once they see his med record.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 58783
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #37: August 03, 2021, 01:56:50 PM »
Some of this is Rocker's fault.  What did he think?  His elbow would slip by, unnoticed? Got to be transparent about the elbow before the draft to avoid a team taking him and walking away once they see his med record.
Im wondering if its really an elbow issue. I mean, if it is, then the only issue I can think of is Rocker doesnt want to get the surgery right away.

If it were a shoulder issue, I could totally see the Mets balking at signing him.

Offline Mattionals

  • Posts: 5027
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #38: August 03, 2021, 03:11:57 PM »
Im wondering if its really an elbow issue. I mean, if it is, then the only issue I can think of is Rocker doesnt want to get the surgery right away.

If it were a shoulder issue, I could totally see the Mets balking at signing him.

This is what I'm on about. I think it's a shoulder issue. Maybe his lack of velo is being caused by something that would require TOS. That is a very iffy road to go down if it's TOS.

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 20845
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #39: August 03, 2021, 03:36:04 PM »
If it's more than just TJ, Boras did him a massive disservice by not letting teams have access to the medicals beforehand. He would have dropped, but some team would have taken a flyer eventually and he'd be in a system starting his career   

Offline bluestreak

  • Posts: 10987
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #40: August 03, 2021, 04:31:39 PM »
Hiding medicals seems like a bad idea when the team will eventually get to evaluate you before signing. Maybe I’m wrong and Tom’s of guys do it, but all of does is throw up a huge red flag when disclosure is inevitable.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 58783
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #41: August 07, 2021, 05:38:09 PM »
https://nypost.com/2021/08/07/how-mets-drafting-kumar-rocker-went-so-very-wrong/

Quote
Q: What exactly is wrong with Rocker?

A: The Mets expressed concern initially and primarily about Rocker’s right elbow, according to multiple sources. Ultimately, the Mets didn’t like what they saw beyond just the elbow, which is why they didn’t think even Tommy John surgery would alleviate their worries.

And thats what I was wondering. Rocker never opted into the sharing of medical info like a lot of other top pitchers do. The result is that the Mets werent willing to risk it.

Offline welch

  • Posts: 14181
  • 2019: Won the fight
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #42: September 13, 2021, 02:31:11 PM »
Anything recent on Kumar Rocker? I did a search, and the last article that popped out was from August 6, in which a Pittsburgh writer explains that the Pirates would probably skip Rocker in the first round of 2022 draft, since they have the 5th pick or better. Maybe in the second round, the writer suggests, although noting that some team will probably pick him in the first hoping to fix his arm problem. Whatever it is.

Boras seemed to have suggested that Rocker might pitch for an independent team, but he hasn't. Maybe it's time for Boras to share Rocker's medicals with the Lerner family.

Offline imref

  • Posts: 35814
  • Re-contending in 2022
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #43: September 13, 2021, 05:03:11 PM »
Anything recent on Kumar Rocker? I did a search, and the last article that popped out was from August 6, in which a Pittsburgh writer explains that the Pirates would probably skip Rocker in the first round of 2022 draft, since they have the 5th pick or better. Maybe in the second round, the writer suggests, although noting that some team will probably pick him in the first hoping to fix his arm problem. Whatever it is.

Boras seemed to have suggested that Rocker might pitch for an independent team, but he hasn't. Maybe it's time for Boras to share Rocker's medicals with the Lerner family.

I checked twitter and nothing. He does have a 0.00 ERA in the minors this year. :)

Offline welch

  • Posts: 14181
  • 2019: Won the fight
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #44: September 13, 2021, 05:21:44 PM »
I checked twitter and nothing. He does have a 0.00 ERA in the minors this year. :)

I checked and his Twitter account seems to be dead. Baseball Ref says that he has pitched three seasons for Vanderbilt, and gives nothing more. Curious. As if he vanished.

Offline imref

  • Posts: 35814
  • Re-contending in 2022
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #45: September 13, 2021, 06:25:05 PM »
I checked and his Twitter account seems to be dead. Baseball Ref says that he has pitched three seasons for Vanderbilt, and gives nothing more. Curious. As if he vanished.

maybe he never existed?

Offline welch

  • Posts: 14181
  • 2019: Won the fight

Offline YadiSTAR aka Smithian

  • Posts: 10471
  • YadiCHISE
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #47: September 15, 2021, 02:59:20 PM »
I'm with Slateman in this thread. There is something weird happening we don't know, possibly a lack of communication or unwillingness to begin treatment on the part of the Rocker camp.

On the other hand, I don't feel like Boras would want any part of that.

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 17392
Re: Mets find elbow "issue" in Kumar Rocker exam
« Reply #48: September 15, 2021, 03:11:29 PM »
Boras loves a challenge and a chance to crusade against rich baseball teams. He has such a huge ego that he wants to be able to say he personally got Rocker X amount in 2022 now.