Author Topic: League competitiveness  (Read 204 times)

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Offline imref

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League competitiveness
« Topic Start: February 03, 2021, 01:42:59 PM »
Here's a really interesting piece on the lack of teams trying to win in 2021.

http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=16888

With CBA expiring (and with COVID likely meaning limited attendance), the majority of teams seem to have thrown in the towel for 2021.

Key point IMHO:

Quote
  • 14 teams are purposely doing as little as possible to improve their teams this off-season. Not surprisingly, these 14 teams account for 14 of the 17 smallest projected payrolls right now.
  • Another 3 teams are competitive and/or have high payrolls, but are making moves that question their intent (specifically: Boston, San Francisco, and Tampa)
  • This leaves the remaining 13 teams which are clearly “trying,” actively signing and improving their teams, increasing payroll, etc. Again, not surprisingly, these 13 “trying” teams currently comprise 12 of the top 13 projected 2021 payrolls

WRT to NL East he notes:

Quote
NL East: the most competitive division, with 4 of the 5 teams trying and spending money. Of course, as noted above Atlanta’s wealth is hamstrung artificially (which must be awesome for their fans). Miami continues to be an embarassment, a revenue suck on the rest of the league.

Offline DCFan

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #1: February 03, 2021, 01:47:52 PM »
I wonder how different this is from other years where it seems most teams aren’t going whole hog on spending?

Offline imref

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #2: February 03, 2021, 01:50:11 PM »
I wonder how different this is from other years where it seems most teams aren’t going whole hog on spending?

mindfacting here, but probably a bit worse this year.  He argues at the end of the article that the players really need a salary floor, and it's likely to be a major point of contention going into the next CBA.  I agree.

Offline DCFan

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #3: February 03, 2021, 01:56:40 PM »
mindfacting here, but probably a bit worse this year.  He argues at the end of the article that the players really need a salary floor, and it's likely to be a major point of contention going into the next CBA.  I agree.

When you say salary floor you’re talking of minimum team payroll? If so I think it’s long overdue.

Offline imref

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #4: February 03, 2021, 01:59:30 PM »
When you say salary floor you’re talking of minimum team payroll? If so I think it’s long overdue.

Exactly.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #5: February 03, 2021, 02:03:59 PM »
I don't see the league accepting a floor without a cap and I don't see the mlbpa going for a cap. The sane thing would be to mirror other sports, but I don't think you can do that in baseball since most of the revenue is local rather than national money being distributed to the teams.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #6: February 03, 2021, 02:05:46 PM »
So the Bucs banner across S Capitol from the 3rd base entrance needs to go down to ground level? 

"100% tanking mode; traded away most of their assets; just ONE guy on a multi-year contract"

Offline imref

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #7: February 03, 2021, 02:10:07 PM »
I don't see the league accepting a floor without a cap and I don't see the mlbpa going for a cap. The sane thing would be to mirror other sports, but I don't think you can do that in baseball since most of the revenue is local rather than national money being distributed to the teams.

Maybe they can put in a penalty tax charged to teams who pay under a certain level, and use that to offset the luxury tax? :)

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #8: February 03, 2021, 02:15:58 PM »
Maybe they can put in a penalty tax charged to teams who pay under a certain level, and use that to offset the luxury tax? :)

the revenue side is just too messed up for it to work. The dodgers spending what would be considered a reasonable percentage of revenue in any other sport would bankrupt the Marlins

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #9: February 03, 2021, 02:16:33 PM »
The Danish model
Maybe they can put in a penalty tax charged to teams who pay under a certain level, and use that to offset the luxury tax? :)

Offline bluestreak

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #10: February 03, 2021, 02:21:24 PM »
It's funny, Americans who are super capitalist and support survival of the fittest economically, but for sports try to do as many things as possible to equalize competitiveness. Meanwhile in Europe, which leans more socialist, there are no real caps and the same teams win almost every year because the spend oodles more than the little guys and there are no caps, max contracts, etc.

I don't know why this is, but it's really interesting.

Offline varoadking

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #11: February 03, 2021, 02:22:33 PM »

Offline UMDNats

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #12: February 03, 2021, 02:26:49 PM »
If you put me in charge of the Pirates I absolutely could do a better job than their current management.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #13: February 03, 2021, 02:28:17 PM »

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #14: February 04, 2021, 11:07:55 AM »
It's funny, Americans who are super capitalist and support survival of the fittest economically, but for sports try to do as many things as possible to equalize competitiveness. Meanwhile in Europe, which leans more socialist, there are no real caps and the same teams win almost every year because the spend oodles more than the little guys and there are no caps, max contracts, etc.

I don't know why this is, but it's really interesting.

Part of it is antitrust law.  American leagues have much broader antitrust immunity (via a series of layered exemptions) than exists under EU, UK, and EU member state law.  They can't legally do salary caps. 

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #15: February 04, 2021, 11:23:50 AM »
Part of it is antitrust law.  American leagues have much broader antitrust immunity (via a series of layered exemptions) than exists under EU, UK, and EU member state law.  They can't legally do salary caps. 

or drafts or trades - which are about the most un-American concepts in sports

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #16: February 04, 2021, 11:48:01 AM »
or drafts or trades - which are about the most un-American concepts in sports
It’s like a pact with the devil for players. High prices indentured servitude.

Online aspenbubba

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #17: February 04, 2021, 01:24:24 PM »
It’s like a pact with the devil for players. High prices indentured servitude.

hello Curt Flood

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #18: February 04, 2021, 03:16:51 PM »
It seems teams might be banking on expanded playoffs.  My read is that a lot of teams are aiming for 85-88 wins, not 91-95. 

or drafts or trades - which are about the most un-American concepts in sports

Are they?  Seems to be that a small number of wealthy white dudes telling everyone how to go about their lives is pretty classically American.  Drafts and trades just do it more overtly.

or drafts or trades - which are about the most un-American concepts in sports

And you know why they aren't allowed in Europe?  Antitrust law. 

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #19: February 04, 2021, 03:28:20 PM »
It seems teams might be banking on expanded playoffs.  My read is that a lot of teams are aiming for 85-88 wins, not 91-95. 

Are they?  Seems to be that a small number of wealthy white dudes telling everyone how to go about their lives is pretty classically American.  Drafts and trades just do it more overtly.

And you know why they aren't allowed in Europe?  Antitrust law. 

even without antitrust law, works rights laws would probably bar drafts and trades. Only in the US can you tell an 18 year old that, if they want to enter a certain industry, they are only allowed to work for a single company and at a set salary and, if that company decides to send you to a different employer in a different state, they have to agree if you want to continue working in their field.

Offline Elvir Ovcina

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Re: League competitiveness
« Reply #20: February 04, 2021, 04:08:18 PM »
even without antitrust law, works rights laws would probably bar drafts and trades. Only in the US can you tell an 18 year old that, if they want to enter a certain industry, they are only allowed to work for a single company and at a set salary and, if that company decides to send you to a different employer in a different state, they have to agree if you want to continue working in their field.

You seem to be in violent agreement, then, that this result is in fact very American.