Author Topic: PB69 presents "Fire Dave Martinez" (2018)  (Read 56037 times)

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Offline Air Desmond

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2925 on: September 06, 2018, 12:39:13 am »
I agree, but we need a pitcher that doesn't bomb in the first three innings and give away huge leads.

That was my best Davey impression

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2926 on: September 06, 2018, 01:04:41 am »
How many of them have more wins over the same time period?

None of them had to deal with a team underwater, with shambles of a minor league system and horrid scouting department. The Nationals were literally the butt of jokes because of zvYunesky Maya and Gonzalez.

Rizzo took that and turned it into one of the most productive teams in baseball with a well established scouting team and one of the best footprints in Latin America.

Sorry but not too many GMs would have pulled that off

Yunesky Maya was a Rizzo signing (and a terrible one at that).

Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2927 on: September 06, 2018, 01:19:16 am »
Plus, we all know who calls the shots on the manager.

But, Rizzo saying Davey will be back could lead one to believe that it was Mark Lerner who told Rizzo to go public with that.

Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2928 on: September 06, 2018, 02:59:05 am »
Fair to Martinez??? Two of his bullpen guys got traded for nothing because they complained about him. Rizzo made the deals but Martínez still shares the fault for why the pen is so bad.

This guy would be laughing his ass off if he was smart enough to figure out the situation, he got the job by promising a World Series, turned a 97 win team into an embarrassment, and he has the fan base making excuses for him so that he can flop again next year.

I'm not a fan of what I've seen from Davey, hasn't shown any improvement over the course of the season and I don't expect him to be better next year. That said, I don't necessarily blame him for the pen issues. 2-5 the starting rotation has been a complete mess this season and it's forced his hand to make pen decisions that would not have been necessary had certain starters stayed healthy and been able to last more than 4-5 innings per start. Obviously it's going to wear down a pen over the course of the season, and Dusty had the same issues before the Doolittle/Madson trade last year.

Davey wasn't hired because he promised a World Series, he was hired because Mark Lerner decided that anyone could manage this team to 95 wins and Davey was picked. Mark's paranoia about wanting his father to see a title has led to him playing amateur GM and making spontaneous, emotional decisions that go over Rizzo's head. Rizzo wanted Dusty back and instead was undermined. Mark sold the fans a bill of goods with the narrative of hiring a new school analytics type of manager because that was supposedly the trend in baseball, and if the Yankees and Red Sox could do it, why not the Nats as well, and Mark is learning the hard way. It's like a national baseball writer said a few years ago, when a manager gets fired the team usually hires a polar opposite personality and/or strategical approach just to change things up.

For all of the new school analytics talking points about Davey, Davey's mentor for the last decade is someone who has been notorious for wacky, off-the-wall decisions that go against the analytical norm. Blame Rizzo if you must, but it's not as if Rizzo had many options given the fact that the Lerners won't pay managers market value which limits the number of candidates who are even willing to come here. What they should have done was hire someone with experience but it wasn't going to happen because Mark was afraid of the backlash over booting 1800+ win Dusty to simply hire the same type of manager who had been previously fired and didn't have anywhere close to Dusty's win total. Davey has been put in this position by a paranoid owner, a bad philosophy and poor decision making, so in that regard I don't even blame him. He can't seem to hack it as a skipper whatsoever but the focus needs to be on who and what is responsible for putting him in the dugout to begin with. 

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2929 on: September 06, 2018, 07:08:32 am »
Yunesky Maya was a Rizzo signing (and a terrible one at that).
And it was based on a crappy scouting department set up by Bowden. That's my point.

How many GMs have had to totally re-organize their scouting department? How many of hose GMs have had the same success the Nationals have had?

Offline hotshot

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2930 on: September 06, 2018, 08:48:32 am »
Post headline writer for Chelsea Janes' article today says Rizzo only gives Dave a tepid endorsement. A sort of "We'll see" response to DM's future.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2931 on: September 06, 2018, 09:10:56 am »
Someone set up a poll of when DM will be fired:

Immediately after the season
after the world series
early next season after team gets off to a slow start
failure to get to the play offs in 2019
is given an extension after winning the NLCS

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2932 on: September 06, 2018, 10:27:55 am »
Martinez lost this one when he couldn't hold the cardinals offense down in the first 2 innings

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2933 on: September 06, 2018, 11:03:04 am »
And it was based on a crappy scouting department set up by Bowden. That's my point.

How many GMs have had to totally re-organize their scouting department? How many of hose GMs have had the same success the Nationals have had?

Who was in charge of the scouting department under Bowden?

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2934 on: September 06, 2018, 11:04:17 am »
Martinez lost this one when he couldn't hold the cardinals offense down in the first 2 innings

blame the camels :whip:

Offline Slateman

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2935 on: September 06, 2018, 11:09:30 am »
Who was in charge of the scouting department under Bowden?
Bowden

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2936 on: September 06, 2018, 11:10:27 am »
I'm not certain that Baker was any more erudite that Martinez.
I am.  Not even close.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2937 on: September 06, 2018, 12:10:45 pm »
And it was based on a crappy scouting department set up by Bowden. That's my point.

How many GMs have had to totally re-organize their scouting department? How many of hose GMs have had the same success the Nationals have had?

Nope, you were trying to name Bowden moves and you freaked up.

Either that or you're absurdly absolving Rizzo of any blame for something that happened in year 2 of his tenure.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2938 on: September 06, 2018, 12:14:25 pm »
I am.  Not even close.

Yeah, I am not sure what he's basing his theory on.

Offline natswinws

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2939 on: September 06, 2018, 02:06:07 pm »
If Martinez comes back next year I hope he focuses more on:

- Fundamentals. Especially throwing to the right base. Slide into a base so you don't come off of it and get out after you were already safe.
- Being alert during games. Things like what Eaton did the other night. Guys getting picked off. Runners not taking the extra base when they should have.
- Hold players accountable for not hustling and just going through the motions.
- No zoo animals. Less hugging.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2940 on: September 06, 2018, 02:21:16 pm »
Slide into a base so you don't come off of it and get out after you were already safe.
I'd rather see a rule change: not review-able.  If he isn't off the base long enough for the umpire to see it live, it shouldn't count.  Players have been coming off the base for a microsecond, for 100 years. Why should they have to learn a new skill now, just because of replay.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2941 on: September 06, 2018, 02:24:37 pm »
I'd rather see a rule change: not review-able.  If he isn't off the base long enough for the umpire to see it live, it shouldn't count.  Players have been coming off the base for a microsecond, for 100 years. Why should they have to learn a new skill now, just because of replay.

Yeah. this is the version of replay that I hate and I am positive was not an intended consequence of replay. The solution would be to basically make the zone above the base as safe territory as well. That would cover the brief bounce off the bag, but wouldn't protect someone who obviously overslid the base. Or you could do like Ray and make that aspect unreviewable.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2942 on: September 06, 2018, 02:24:48 pm »
:spit:



this freaking place

Offline mitlen

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2943 on: September 06, 2018, 02:58:29 pm »
:spit:



this freaking place

C'mon man.   You know you love it.    :)

Online blue911

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2944 on: September 06, 2018, 03:12:54 pm »
Why not return to brake-away bases? It eliminates the over slide and lessen the chase of injury.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2945 on: September 06, 2018, 03:17:54 pm »
I am.  Not even close.
Yeah, I am not sure what he's basing his theory on.

Are you telling me that Baker was articulate ? :hysterical:

Offline Ray D

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2946 on: September 06, 2018, 04:14:25 pm »
Are you telling me that Baker was articulate ? :hysterical:
You said "erudite".  And you said no more erudite that Martinez.

er·u·dite - having or showing great knowledge or learning.
synonyms:   learned, scholarly, educated, knowledgeable, well read, well informed, intellectual; intelligent, clever, academic, literary; bookish, highbrow, sophisticated, cerebral;

He was these things.  In particular, he far exceeded Martinez in each of these attributes.   Nothing in that list about articulate, but he was way more articulate than Martinez.

Online blue911

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2947 on: September 06, 2018, 04:15:51 pm »
You said "erudite".  And you said no more erudite that Martinez.

er·u·dite - having or showing great knowledge or learning.
synonyms:   learned, scholarly, educated, knowledgeable, well read, well informed, intellectual; intelligent, clever, academic, literary; bookish, highbrow, sophisticated, cerebral;

He was these things.  In particular, he far exceeded Martinez in each of these attributes.   Nothing in that list about articulate, but he was way more articulate than Martinez.

And he smoked weed with Jimi freaking Hendrix.

Offline bluestreak

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2948 on: September 06, 2018, 04:22:36 pm »
You said "erudite".  And you said no more erudite that Martinez.

er·u·dite - having or showing great knowledge or learning.
synonyms:   learned, scholarly, educated, knowledgeable, well read, well informed, intellectual; intelligent, clever, academic, literary; bookish, highbrow, sophisticated, cerebral;

He was these things.  In particular, he far exceeded Martinez in each of these attributes.   Nothing in that list about articulate, but he was way more articulate than Martinez.

Dusty speaks so well...

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Fire Dave Martinez (2018)
« Reply #2949 on: September 06, 2018, 04:23:16 pm »
Why not return to brake-away bases? It eliminates the over slide and lessen the chase of injury.
that would work with all the head-first sliding now.  You would literally grab the base and never let it go.