Poll

Updated - who does Harper sign with?

Nationals
25 (47.2%)
Phillies
22 (41.5%)
Padres
2 (3.8%)
D'backs
1 (1.9%)
White Sox
3 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 52

Author Topic: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....  (Read 190441 times)

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Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1650 on: February 03, 2019, 07:02:27 pm »
I think once Machado signs the market will be set for Rendon and there's a chance he'll sign an extension then. Not a good chance but a chance.

I'm thinking that Tony two-bags will be an intelligent, thoughtful free agent.  Not a money whore.

Offline Senatorswin

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1651 on: February 03, 2019, 07:12:14 pm »
Of Jason Werths 7 years with the Nats 3 of them were good. They paid 126 million dollars for three good years and four where he was a burden. Again, it seems todays GMs are not wanting to pay for that many bad years. Of course as soon as I say that some team will give up some crazy amount.

Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1652 on: February 03, 2019, 07:16:37 pm »
some team will give up some crazy amount.

Let them.  They will regret it.



Online imref

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1655 on: February 03, 2019, 07:39:18 pm »
You have me onnignore again.

Who are you?  :)

Sorry, missed it among the contract the discussion.

Online Natsinpwc

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1656 on: February 03, 2019, 07:39:49 pm »
Who are you?  :)

Sorry, missed it among the contract the discussion.
Huh?

Offline tomterp

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1657 on: February 03, 2019, 07:41:04 pm »

Offline bluestreak

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Offline Nick the Pig

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1660 on: February 03, 2019, 10:40:03 pm »

Offline skippy1999

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1661 on: February 03, 2019, 11:59:31 pm »

Offline varoadking

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1662 on: February 04, 2019, 12:01:43 am »

Offline Bloo

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1663 on: February 04, 2019, 12:37:42 am »
That message had nothing to do with signing a team but rather the long load times when playing Kingdom Hearts 3. Calling it right now.

Online imref

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Offline nfotiu

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1665 on: February 04, 2019, 07:39:46 am »
Are you guys thinking that's Harper on the FB page?  It doesn't look like his body to me.

Online Copecwby20

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1666 on: February 04, 2019, 07:58:43 am »
Are you guys thinking that's Harper on the FB page?  It doesn't look like his body to me.

Based upon further review, that’s not Bryce. Kinda looks like Max with a beard if you zoom in. 

Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1667 on: February 04, 2019, 08:10:43 am »
Yankees not interested?  :twisted:

Online imref

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1668 on: February 04, 2019, 08:19:13 am »
Based upon further review, that’s not Bryce. Kinda looks like Max with a beard if you zoom in. 

might be Eaton?

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1669 on: February 04, 2019, 08:47:56 am »
I think most of the explanation Harper and Machado haven't signed is that every single team now accepts that we aren't in a steroid-era aging curve anymore. There were only 6 (!) position players who put up 3 or more WAR at 31 or older last year. 6 out of 59 3-WAR players, or 10%.

That's insane.

In 2002 it was 26 out of 76, or 34%.

I've talked at length about my problems with analysts who are using $/WAR to project player value - it's nowhere close to $10 million/WAR unless you look at things retrospectively in which case all the players who were paid to be busts basically jack up the numerator.

But I also have a major issue with the current aging curve analysts are using. It doesn't seem like teams internal aging curves are crediting players for -0.5 WAR per year drops in their early 30s. It seems like teams are aging player values WAYYY more quickly than that.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1670 on: February 04, 2019, 10:11:46 am »
My theory is something like this - teams completely discount the phenomenon of players occasionally peaking in their 30s, and that leads to a much steeper aging curve.

If I'm signing a guy long-term, does it really make sense to assume he'll age like Justin Turner, or Jed Lowrie, or Daniel Murphy, and randomly become a much better hitter in their 30s than they were in their 20s? So why even include that type of player when you're modeling a player's aging curve and deciding how much to offer in free agency?

Looking at average WAR by age by definition inflates your averages, because you end up excluding players who flamed out early, and including players who improved later in their careers. It doesn't really give you a valid expectation that you need to take a random 30-year old and project what he's going to do going forward. Doesn't it make more sense to look at guys who were already good and look at how they aged?

I pulled up 26 guys who put up 3 or more WAR as 30 year olds from 2010 to 2013, and then looked at their next 5 years. I excluded guys who "don't really count" because they were one-year wonders and it happened to be in their age-30 season (Ryan Roberts?!?!). That leaves the following cohort - Pujols, Holliday, Teixeira, Uggla, Dunn, Bautista, Granderson, Zobrist, Victorino, Phillips, Hamilton, Swisher, Hill, Pagan, Ethier, Gonzalez, Cabrera, Choo, Cano, Molina, Mauer, Pence, Martin, Encarnacion, Hardy, Escobar.

I think that's a pretty good group. Well here's their combined aging curve.

Age: Average WAR
30: 5.0
31: 3.1
32: 2.6
33: 1.9
34: 1.5
35: 0.9

So the -0.5 WAR per season aging curve looks pretty good...if you assume they've already fallen off a cliff in the first place.

But look at those numbers and you get a pretty good idea of why teams aren't jumping to sign Harper and Machado to 10-year deals. If guys drop that quickly to just "above average regular" level, then the upside of their early years really isn't worth the premium of paying them on the back end.

And the downside isn't just for 30-year olds. Here is the aging curve for the 10 best 25-year olds in 2012 and 2013 (Goldy, Upton, Belt, Seager, Posey, McCutchen, Jackson, Reddick, Kipnis, Jennings).

Age: Average WAR
25: 4.8
26: 4.0
27: 3.8
28: 3.7
29: 2.7
30: 2.6

So to convince yourself to sign Harper or Machado to a 10-year deal, you have to first convince yourself they won't age like an average 25-year old, and THEN convince yourself they won't age like an average 30-year old.

Offline blue911

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1671 on: February 04, 2019, 10:24:11 am »
Age 30 has two different WAR values?

Offline varoadking

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1672 on: February 04, 2019, 10:31:56 am »
Age 30 has two different WAR values?

He is using 2 different sample sets...

Offline rileyn

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1673 on: February 04, 2019, 10:41:58 am »
But we already showed a willingness to offer 10 years.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: POLL: UPDATED: Bryce's team in 2019 will be.....
« Reply #1674 on: February 04, 2019, 10:51:20 am »
But we already showed a willingness to offer 10 years.

Not debating whether or not they'll get it, just responding to what i believe is some surprise that not more teams are jumping at the chance to give them huge 10-year deals.