Author Topic: 2018 bullpen  (Read 44402 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 66883
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #450 on: August 01, 2018, 11:30:13 am »
Rookie Monster Alert:  Pitcher who has never thrown to single batter in the Majors is better than a vet who's been pitching well. 
Coredero = Henry Rodriguez 2.0

Offline mitlen

  • Posts: 66171
  • We had 'em all the way.
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #451 on: August 01, 2018, 11:30:49 am »
What? Turner got benched like a week ago. They weren't just going to cut him.

The bullpen seems like it's be a squeaky wheel all season and to think they only cut Kelley because of last night is naive.

It's August.   It's kind of late to be a tough guy.    The Nats ain't bullcraptin' anybody.    You know it.   I know it.   We all know it.    That's the nature of any "business".    Let's not pretend that this is some "signal" to the team.

Offline Baseball is Life

  • Posts: 20393
  • Proud member of the Sunshine Squad.
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #452 on: August 01, 2018, 11:31:42 am »
It's August.   It's kind of late to be a tough guy.

Never too late to do the right thing.

Offline catocony

  • Posts: 739
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #453 on: August 01, 2018, 11:35:26 am »
Another case of selective enforcement.    The clubhouse knows it and it's too late to impress Harper, Turner, etc.    A case of a lax management team trying to get tough.    It's laughable.

I know it's old news, but when the rookie manager lets a veteran player take Spring Training games off, I find it hard to cut a guy for throwing a glove.  It's five and a half months too late to try the disciplinarian route.  It smells of BS.  And yeah, I'm pretty sure that the next time Turner throws a tantrum after a strikeout, he's not going to be DFA'ed. 

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 12316
  • Sunshine Squad 2025
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #454 on: August 01, 2018, 11:36:31 am »
I put the Kelley story into Google translate and it came out as; "We are over his crap, tried to trade him, couldn't find a partner, then he threw a fit on the mound and gave us a good excuse to get rid of him the old fashioned way."

Offline catocony

  • Posts: 739
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #455 on: August 01, 2018, 11:36:56 am »
Coredero = Henry Rodriguez 2.0

That remains to be seen.  He may be good, he may suck.  However, when the guy who's never been in the game is deemed better than the guy he's replacing, that's a Rookie Monster moment.

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 18070
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #456 on: August 01, 2018, 11:41:36 am »
It's August.   It's kind of late to be a tough guy.    The Nats ain't bullcraptin' anybody.    You know it.   I know it.   We all know it.    That's the nature of any "business".    Let's not pretend that this is some "signal" to the team.

I don't think it's a signal to the team as much as it's management being tired of a guy's bullcrap (assuming there is some).

Being a "tough guy" doesn't play for guys like Harper, Turner, Rendon, etc., guys who know they are playing every day unless they do something stupid.

Offline bluestreak

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 11279
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #457 on: August 01, 2018, 11:44:00 am »
So the positives are lies and the negatives are true.

In my experience they are both at minimum stretches of the actual truth.

No, but the negative makes sense given all that we have seen this year. It makes zero sense for this to be a “Kumbaya” clubhouse. I don’t  blindly believe anything, I evaluate the rest of the evidence and use critical thinking skills to come to a conclusion.
And it certainly makes sense for folks to officially say that things are fine even if they aren’t. The recent bullpen purge is more evidence that there is some clubhouse dysfunction.

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 18070
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #458 on: August 01, 2018, 11:50:01 am »
I know it's old news, but when the rookie manager lets a veteran player take Spring Training games off, I find it hard to cut a guy for throwing a glove.  It's five and a half months too late to try the disciplinarian route.  It smells of BS.  And yeah, I'm pretty sure that the next time Turner throws a tantrum after a strikeout, he's not going to be DFA'ed. 

People actually believe Martinez made that call by himself? Seriously, it obviously had to be discussed with Rizzo. The whole Zimmerman thing is so freaking overblown.

Quote
Zimmerman began taking at-bats in minor league games a few weeks ago and found that he enjoyed the experience. He could get plenty of at-bats against prospect-level pitching — as many in one day as he might in three Grapefruit League games — while not enduring the wear and tear of playing the field. For a man once troubled by plantar fasciitis who has been an everyday big leaguer since late in 2005, consensus holds that the less time he spends standing around in cleats, the better.

Zimmerman took to the infield with his teammates Tuesday. He has been hitting on the field with them for weeks. He has done extra hitting work with Kevin Long and extra fielding drills with Tim Bogar.

https://www.federalbaseball.com/2018/3/27/17168232/washington-nationals-ryan-zimmerman-took-a-different-approach-to-spring-training-at-bats

Quote
In spite of the fact that he played in just one Grapefruit League game this Spring, GM Mike Rizzo told MLB Network Radio’s Eduardo Perez and Steve Phillips earlier this month that he was fully confident Zimmerman would be ready for the start of the season.

“Zim is getting a lot of at bats on the back fields,” Rizzo explained. “We like that controlled environment for our veteran players. He likes it out there. He can get ten at bats in a day if he wants to, he leads off every inning, kind of the way he likes to do it.”


:smh:

Offline nfotiu

  • Posts: 5175
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #459 on: August 01, 2018, 12:05:28 pm »
If the bullpen itself became a toxic influence on the team, then these moves are probably effective especially if they rid themselves of the main problems.  I can see it happening.  A bunch of guys sitting out there bored for 6 innings every game start feeding off of each other's negativity, and get more confidence to spout off as a group.   Then the guys are like "why are we letting these middle relief guys who work an inning every game or two get away with this crap".  Same reason an NFL team wouldn't stand for a kicker being a distraction.

Offline MarquisDeSade

  • Posts: 15101
  • Captain Sadness
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #460 on: August 01, 2018, 12:10:11 pm »
Coredero = Henry Rodriguez 2.0

Please, please, please let this be the case. 

Offline Mattionals

  • Posts: 5920
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #461 on: August 01, 2018, 12:12:32 pm »
What is Cordero's velocity like now after the shoulder issues?

Offline bluestreak

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 11279
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #462 on: August 01, 2018, 12:15:15 pm »
If the bullpen itself became a toxic influence on the team, then these moves are probably effective especially if they rid themselves of the main problems.  I can see it happening.  A bunch of guys sitting out there bored for 6 innings every game start feeding off of each other's negativity, and get more confidence to spout off as a group.   Then the guys are like "why are we letting these middle relief guys who work an inning every game or two get away with this crap".  Same reason an NFL team wouldn't stand for a kicker being a distraction.

A bunch of bored folks feeding off each other’s negativity. Are you taking about the Nats’ bullpen or WNFF?

Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 30965
  • King of Goodness
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #463 on: August 01, 2018, 12:48:16 pm »
Just more inconsistency from management.

We've become the freaking Deadskinz.

Yup...

Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 30965
  • King of Goodness
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #464 on: August 01, 2018, 12:49:06 pm »
A bunch of bored folks feeding off each other’s negativity. Are you taking about the Nats’ bullpen or WNFF?

 :spit:

Offline varoadking

  • Posts: 30965
  • King of Goodness
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #465 on: August 01, 2018, 12:51:41 pm »
There are also reports that it isn’t.

If things were fine, it wouldn't even be a topic of conversation...

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21929
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #466 on: August 01, 2018, 12:58:49 pm »
He didn't say he got rid of him only for his glove throwing antics. Read between the lines. And I think sending a message that players are going to be held accountable will impact the entire roster. Those who can't be cut will still realize that their crap won't be tolerated. Trade and benching are always options.

As long as they’re expendable, don’t expect the important guys to be held accountable though, that’s crazy talk

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 12316
  • Sunshine Squad 2025
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #467 on: August 01, 2018, 01:03:30 pm »
As long as they’re expendable, don’t expect the important guys to be held accountable though, that’s crazy talk
That's how sports works.

Doolittle throws a tantrum and calls out a manager? We better damn well put up with it.

Kelley gets frustrated and throws down his glove? DFA.

We're not unique

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21929
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #468 on: August 01, 2018, 01:04:59 pm »
That's how sports works.

Doolittle throws a tantrum and calls out a manager? We better damn well put up with it.

Kelley gets frustrated and throws down his glove? DFA.

We're not unique

of course, but that’s why it’s ridiculous to think something like this sends a message

Offline GburgNatsFan

  • Posts: 22349
  • Let's drink a few for Mathguy.
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #469 on: August 01, 2018, 01:07:40 pm »

Offline Slateman

  • Posts: 66883
  • THE SUMMONER OF THE REVERSE JINX
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #470 on: August 01, 2018, 01:08:28 pm »
Rizzo takes charge:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationals-journal/wp/2018/08/01/mike-rizzo-delivers-a-message-for-nationals-if-youre-not-in-youre-in-the-way/?utm_term=.c23f6b4c4724

Mike Rizzo delivers a message for Nationals: ‘If you’re not in, you’re in the way’

Let's see how much that holds at the end of August when everyone but Bryce Harper is hitting

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21929
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #471 on: August 01, 2018, 01:08:30 pm »

Offline Smithian

  • Posts: 12316
  • Sunshine Squad 2025
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #472 on: August 01, 2018, 01:08:56 pm »
of course, but that’s why it’s ridiculous to think something like this sends a message
It's meant to send a message to the backups and role players. Players on the fringe.

In sports, starters and key players almost always buy in. They're on the field every day, they're invested, they're the ones who look bad when things go wrong. Clubhouse cancers tend to be backups who are lockerroom litigators when things go badly. If you want a healthy lockerroom, it often starts from the bottom up.

Offline bluestreak

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 11279
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #473 on: August 01, 2018, 01:08:58 pm »
That's how sports works.

Doolittle throws a tantrum and calls out a manager? We better damn well put up with it.

Kelley gets frustrated and throws down his glove? DFA.

We're not unique

Doolittle called out the manager?

Offline HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 21929
Re: 2018 bullpen
« Reply #474 on: August 01, 2018, 01:10:00 pm »
It's meant to send a message to the backups and role players. Players on the fringe.

In sports, starters and key players almost always buy in. They're on the field every day, they're invested, they're the ones who look bad when things go wrong. Clubhouse cancers tend to be backups who are lockerroom litigators when things go badly. If you want a healthy lockerroom, it often starts from the bottom up.

Harper pined for another catcher in a game that he sucked in, if that’s buying in, the nats are freaked