What to trade?

[varoadking]

From defensive metrics and every scouting report done in him.

The same geek metrics and scouting system that told Rizzo to take Storen instead of Trout? 

Anyone that has watched them play knows that the D in Difo does not stand for defense. 

[spidernat]

From defensive metrics and every scouting report done in him.

Slate want a cracker?

[spidernat]

The same geek metrics and scouting system that told Rizzo to take Storen instead of Trout? 

Anyone that has watched them play knows that the D in Difo does not stand for defense. 

Neither one is stellar defensively and Turner has had a knock on his defense (which I believe to be unwarranted) but to claim that Difo is superior or "significantly better" than Turner based on freaking "metrics" is just freaking stupid and again confirms that the likes of Slateman and company do nothing but parrot what geek stats tell them to say.



Is this another instance where we are going to need Slateman to define what "good" and "average" mean?

[bluestreak]

Neither one is stellar defensively and Turner has had a knock on his defense (which I believe to be unwarranted) but to claim that Difo is superior or "significantly better" than Turner based on freaking "metrics" is just freaking stupid and again confirms that the likes of Slateman and company do nothing but parrot what geek stats tell them to say.



Is this another instance where we are going to need Slateman to define what "good" and "average" mean?

Like I said before I don’t understand the defensive metrics so I don’t quote them. It’s sort of like a black box to me.
That being said if I look at the fangraphs defensive leaderboards, the Name at the top for the Nats is Taylor, and then Severino and Rendon, which makes me think there is some validity to it.
The one I saw was Defensive runs saved which for this year Has Turner at 7 and Difo at 5 (I combined the SS,2B and 3B time for Difo
I think they are both fine defensively, but neither will make you forget about Andrelton Simmons. 

As far as Spider’s general rant, while I think the defensive metrics aren’t perfect, I appreciate that there is some attempt to quantify the quality of defensive play beyond the eye test or people’s gut feelings.
As much as it pisses off spider when people “parrot” what they hear, it pisses me off when people make assertions that have no basis in any data.  That’s how we end up stupid crap like people saying Derek Jeter was actually a good shortstop...

That being said, I believe Turner is a superior baseball player to Difo. And Turner is going to get better. He has a total of 260 games under his belt.

[spidernat]

That’s how we end up stupid crap like people saying Derek Jeter was actually a good shortstop...

You'll never hear me say that.

[bluestreak]

You'll never hear me say that.

No not you.  But you can’t tell me it’s never been said.

[spidernat]

No not you.  But you can’t tell me it’s never been said.

Maybe by fanbois or media talking heads that don't know what the freak they're talking about.

[Slateman]

Neither one is stellar defensively and Turner has had a knock on his defense (which I believe to be unwarranted) but to claim that Difo is superior or "significantly better" than Turner based on freaking "metrics" is just freaking stupid and again confirms that the likes of Slateman and company do nothing but parrot what geek stats tell them to say.



Is this another instance where we are going to need Slateman to define what "good" and "average" mean?

Literally anyone who has watched both play short can tell Difo is much better.

[spidernat]

Literally anyone who has watched both play short can tell Difo is much better.

 

[aBaltoNat]

Literally anyone who has watched both play short can tell Difo is much better.

I typically agree with your takes but I can't agree with you here. I'm not sure I've seen much of a difference, let alone Difo being much better.

[bluestreak]

Literally anyone who has watched both play short can tell Difo is much better.

I have agreed with Slate more lately, but neither guy is a gold Glover and neither is awful.

[aBaltoNat]

I have agreed with Slate more lately, but neither guy is a gold Glover and neither is awful.

You messing with me?

[spidernat]

I typically agree with your takes but I can't agree with you here. I'm not sure I've seen much of a difference, let alone Difo being much better.

I have agreed with Slate more lately, but neither guy is a gold Glover and neither is awful.

Being in agreement with Slate is keeping "good" company (is that below or better than average? I can't recall).

[varoadking]

I would submit that the Difo / Turner discussion has run its course...

[aBaltoNat]

Being in agreement with Slate is keeping "good" company (is that below or better than average? I can't recall).

I'm sorry you aren't a clear and logical thinker. 😀

[DCFan]

The same geek metrics and scouting system that told Rizzo to take Storen instead of Trout? 

Storen was a compatibility pick, meaning everyone knew he wasn't a true 1st round pick but was chosen solely because he could be signed cheaper than a real 1st rounder such as Trout. He was picked because they knew that Strasburg was going to break the bank and there wasn't enough room in the budget for Stras and Trout. Metrics, BABIP and every other stat had nothing to do with picking Storen, it was a dollars and cents decision.

[DCFan]

Neither one is stellar defensively and Turner has had a knock on his defense (which I believe to be unwarranted)

No one will ever rave about Turner's arm.

[Slateman]

Storen was a compatibility pick, meaning everyone knew he wasn't a true 1st round pick but was chosen solely because he could be signed cheaper than a real 1st rounder such as Trout. He was picked because they knew that Strasburg was going to break the bank and there wasn't enough room in the budget for Stras and Trout. Metrics, BABIP and every other stat had nothing to do with picking Storen, it was a dollars and cents decision.

Stop using logic. Spider is busy explaining why ever scout, everyone who sees the game, and every measurable is wrong about Difo's defense

[Natsinpwc]

I would submit that the Difo / Turner discussion has run its course...

No. There should be some additional defensive metrics we can use to argue over who is the 20th best defensive SS and who is 21. 

[Jeff in Gaithersburg]

Looks like our pen will be Ok.

Doolittle is a beast.
Madson is a wily vet
Solis has pitched well
Miller has been incredible
Collins and Grace are dependable
One of Suero, Kintzler or Kelly can round out the pen

I still think they need to add another arm for depth purposes. Madson turns 38 in August and has already been on the DL this year, Kintzler is currently on the DL, Kelley is a DL stint waiting to happen at any time, and while Doolittle has been healthy as a Nat he had a history of DL stints in Oakland. Miller has been very impressive but is it sustainable? Suero is unproven and I would be nervous about him being in a key situation in October. Solis has his good and not so good moments. Adding a decent arm won't cost much of anything in terms of salary or prospects and the depth may really come in handy.

[Slateman]

Trade Turner to the Giants for Posey and Tony Watson

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

I still think they need to add another arm for depth purposes. Madson turns 38 in August and has already been on the DL this year, Kintzler is currently on the DL, Kelley is a DL stint waiting to happen at any time, and while Doolittle has been healthy as a Nat he had a history of DL stints in Oakland. Miller has been very impressive but is it sustainable? Suero is unproven and I would be nervous about him being in a key situation in October. Solis has his good and not so good moments. Adding a decent arm won't cost much of anything in terms of salary or prospects and the depth may really come in handy.

Ask and you shall receive!

[GburgNatsFan]

Quick, ask for an infield bat.

I still think they need to add another arm for depth purposes. Madson turns 38 in August and has already been on the DL this year, Kintzler is currently on the DL, Kelley is a DL stint waiting to happen at any time, and while Doolittle has been healthy as a Nat he had a history of DL stints in Oakland. Miller has been very impressive but is it sustainable? Suero is unproven and I would be nervous about him being in a key situation in October. Solis has his good and not so good moments. Adding a decent arm won't cost much of anything in terms of salary or prospects and the depth may really come in handy.

[aspenbubba]

Storen was a compatibility pick, meaning everyone knew he wasn't a true 1st round pick but was chosen solely because he could be signed cheaper than a real 1st rounder such as Trout. He was picked because they knew that Strasburg was going to break the bank and there wasn't enough room in the budget for Stras and Trout. Metrics, BABIP and every other stat had nothing to do with picking Storen, it was a dollars and cents decision.

IIRC Storen was picked at # 10 and Trout was picked in the low 20's in the first round. What were the signing bonuses of each. I'm not sure money was an issue. Consensus was an easy signing and he signed immediately and went off to the minors .

[CoryTheFormerExposFan]

Trout was missed by a lot of teams.  He's from Philly.  Not a lot of guys generate a lot of attention in the Northeast.  I won't blame Rizzo for missing what a bunch of other teams also missed.  And it's not like Storen was a total bust.  He was a good closer for several years until his postseason failure ruined him.  I'm sure there were worse picks in that draft.