Author Topic: What to trade? (Read 69902 times)

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #125 on:** June 14, 2018, 11:26:17 am »

Quote from: Slateman on June 14, 2018, 07:10:04 am

Again, easy to live with.

Difo can reproduce what Turner does at SS. So really it's Robles and Eaton for Chris Sale. Easy trade. At his worst, Sale is a 5 WAR pitcher. Judging by last year, he's a Cy Young candidate.

Of course, this is all hindsight. We all thought Turner was going to be the best SS in baseball and that Soto was two to three years away.

LOL. Difo is an equal player to Turner? Hahahaha.

Ray D · « **Reply #126 on:** June 14, 2018, 11:44:50 am »

Right now I think starting pitching is the pressing need. It's a mess: Scherzer and pray for four days of rain.

DPMOmaha · « **Reply #127 on:** June 14, 2018, 12:26:29 pm »

Quote from: Ray D on June 14, 2018, 11:44:50 am

Right now I think starting pitching is the pressing need. It's a mess: Scherzer and pray for four days of rain.

I agree that we probably do need another starter, but I don't have any anxiety throwing Gio or Roark out there every fifth day.

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #128 on:** June 14, 2018, 12:32:54 pm »

Quote from: Ray D on June 14, 2018, 11:44:50 am

Right now I think starting pitching is the pressing need. It's a mess: Scherzer and pray for four days of rain.

It's a mess? Nothing indicates Strasburg is seriously injured. It's like last year when he had some short little DL stints. Gio has been one of the top 10 pitchers in the NL. Roark is better than most any #4. Hellickson isn't seriously hurt, and has been great as a #5. I'd like to add somebody to be a Game 3 postseason starter, but whjat are you talking about calling pitching a mess? It's a strength.

bluestreak · « **Reply #129 on:** June 14, 2018, 12:40:57 pm »

Quote from: Ray D on June 14, 2018, 11:44:50 am

Right now I think starting pitching is the pressing need. It's a mess: Scherzer and pray for four days of rain.

Two weeks ago this was literally the best staff in the NL. And there is no reason to suspect that either of the injuries are long term.

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #130 on:** June 14, 2018, 12:43:29 pm »

Quote from: bluestreak on June 14, 2018, 12:40:57 pm

Two weeks ago this was literally the best staff in the NL. And there is no reason to suspect that either of the injuries are long term.

Exactly, and even so, Gio and Roark are not weak spots. So pray for 4 days of rain? WTH?

Slateman · « **Reply #131 on:** June 14, 2018, 12:49:03 pm »

Quote from: CoryTheFormerExposFan on June 14, 2018, 11:26:17 am

LOL. Difo is an equal player to Turner? Hahahaha.

1. He can stay on the field and off the DL
2. He plays better defense at SS
3. Their bats are similar at this point

Ray D · « **Reply #132 on:** June 14, 2018, 12:54:53 pm »

Quote from: CoryTheFormerExposFan on June 14, 2018, 12:43:29 pm

Exactly, and even so, Gio and Roark are not weak spots. So pray for 4 days of rain? WTH?

I'm not optimistic that either Hellickson's performance is sustainable, or that Strasburg will return to full strength. So we have a #1 and a #4 and #5. An we have to fill in the gap with guys like Fedde (and I'm not sure who else). If the team can continue to perform offensively like last night, then we have no problem. If we revert back to getting two or three hits per game, we're in serious trouble with this staff.

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #133 on:** June 14, 2018, 12:55:31 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on June 14, 2018, 12:49:03 pm

1. He can stay on the field and off the DL
2. He plays better defense at SS
3. Their bats are similar at this point

Bats are similar? Turner is a career 292/346/464 in 1023 ABs. Difo compares to that? Oh, and there is that little matter of Turner being right there with Hamilton as the best base stealer in the game. He stole 46 bases in 96 games! That's almost 1 every 2 games. Think an extra base every other game isn't of value? Think if you turned 46 of his singles to doubles what that does to his SLG.

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #134 on:** June 14, 2018, 12:57:39 pm »

Quote from: Ray D on June 14, 2018, 12:54:53 pm

I'm not optimistic that either Hellickson's performance is sustainable, or that Strasburg will return to full strength. So we have a #1 and a #4 and #5. An we have to fill in the gap with guys like Fedde (and I'm not sure who else). If the team can continue to perform offensively like last night, then we have no problem. If we revert back to getting two or three hits per game, we're in serious trouble with this staff.

Hellickson fine. He's a #5, so not a big deal if he does regress. To consider Strasburg just off the map? That's insane. Do you know how many pitchers go all year without missing a few starts? You think ANY team just has 4-5 guys that are good and take the ball every single turn? On what scale is what Gio has done for 1.5 years a #4?" Roark a #5? Seriously? He's a #2 or #3 on many, many teams.

We aren't winning any games if we get 2 or 3 hits per game, no matter if Max pitches every game. Do you really think a lineup with Eaton, Murphy, Rendon, Harper, Turner, etc, etc is going to struggle long term?

bluestreak · « **Reply #135 on:** June 14, 2018, 01:09:54 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on June 14, 2018, 12:49:03 pm

1. He can stay on the field and off the DL
2. He plays better defense at SS
3. Their bats are similar at this point

2018
Turner OPS .726 wRC+ 99
Difo OPS .662 wRC+ 78

Those are not the same.

Slateman · « **Reply #136 on:** June 14, 2018, 01:13:45 pm »

Quote from: bluestreak on June 14, 2018, 01:09:54 pm

2018
Turner OPS .726 wRC+ 99
Difo OPS .662 wRC+ 78

Those are not the same.

Turner was hurt last season.
They're pretty close and Difo's defensive prowess makes up for the offensive difference.

Also, Turner is now regressing. So yea, if it means I get Chris Sale as my number 2 starter and Difo playing SS, that's better than keeping Turner.

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #137 on:** June 14, 2018, 01:18:49 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on June 14, 2018, 01:13:45 pm

Turner was hurt last season.
They're pretty close and Difo's defensive prowess makes up for the offensive difference.

Also, Turner is now regressing. So yea, if it means I get Chris Sale as my number 2 starter and Difo playing SS, that's better than keeping Turner.

In what world is Turner's offensive production and Difo's even remotely close? EVEN if you take away the fact Turner can steal 46 bags in 96 games, Turner is still easily superior offensively.

Monarch · « **Reply #138 on:** June 14, 2018, 01:20:49 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on June 14, 2018, 01:13:45 pm

Turner was hurt last season.
They're pretty close and Difo's defensive prowess makes up for the offensive difference.

Also, Turner is now regressing. So yea, if it means I get Chris Sale as my number 2 starter and Difo playing SS, that's better than keeping Turner.

Your argument has the benefit of hind sight. At the time of the trade Turner looked like a young and promising SS (and he still is) and Difo was a minor league guy who had never played at the MLB level.

Slateman · « **Reply #139 on:** June 14, 2018, 01:26:59 pm »

Quote from: Monarch on June 14, 2018, 01:20:49 pm

Your argument has the benefit of hind sight. At the time of the trade Turner looked like a young and promising SS (and he still is) and Difo was a minor league guy who had never played at the MLB level.

Yes, I mentioned that already.

CoryTheFormerExposFan · « **Reply #140 on:** June 14, 2018, 01:27:24 pm »

I like Difo. He's got a great attitude and is fun to watch. He's a decent utility infielder and fill in starter. Turner is a career 292/346/464 in 1023 ABs with off the charts speed and at a premium position in SS. He's not at his full potential yet either. There isn't a team in the league that values Difo anywhere near Turner.

bluestreak · « **Reply #141 on:** June 14, 2018, 01:30:20 pm »

Quote from: Slateman on June 14, 2018, 01:13:45 pm

Turner was hurt last season.
They're pretty close and Difo's defensive prowess makes up for the offensive difference.

Also, Turner is now regressing. So yea, if it means I get Chris Sale as my number 2 starter and Difo playing SS, that's better than keeping Turner.

I don't fully get the defensive Stats. Difo leads in UZR, Turner leads in DRS. I don't think of Difo as having defensive prowess (I think he's fine; I think they are both fine)
And If we are trading Sale for Turner, then yes.

But the gist of the trade would have been Turner, Eaton and Robles (or what you can get for him; it's amazing the short memory here. People actually want this guy traded?).
Turner is on pace to be 4-5 win player. The other two conservatively get you 6.0 WAR. is it worth it to give up 10 wins for Chris Sale? Chris Sale who always loses gas at the end of the year and has a playoff ERA over 8. (You're a guy who hates on Scherzer, what would you do with this guy?)

Slateman · « **Reply #142 on:** June 14, 2018, 01:58:08 pm »

Quote from: bluestreak on June 14, 2018, 01:30:20 pm

I don't fully get the defensive Stats. Difo leads in UZR, Turner leads in DRS. I don't think of Difo as having defensive prowess (I think he's fine; I think they are both fine)
And If we are trading Sale for Turner, then yes.

But the gist of the trade would have been Turner, Eaton and Robles (or what you can get for him; it's amazing the short memory here. People actually want this guy traded?).
Turner is on pace to be 4-5 win player. The other two conservatively get you 6.0 WAR. is it worth it to give up 10 wins for Chris Sale? Chris Sale who always loses gas at the end of the year and has a playoff ERA over 8. (You're a guy who hates on Scherzer, what would you do with this guy?)

Where are you getting your defensive metrics. Difo has 15 DRS in 517 innings at SS, while Turner has 4 DRS in 1400+ innings at short.

Turner is a 4 WAR player. I think Difo could be a 3-4 WAR player if he were to start every day.

Eaton hasn't done crap since he got here. And honestly, the Nationals plan is to play him in LF or CF. He's a sub 4 WAR player when he doesn't play RF. And Robles getting 6 WAR is a pipe dream at this point. It's a lot to project a guy out that much.

So yea, 3-4 WAR SS, with an outfield of Soto, Taylor, and Harper, with Goodwin on the bench and Matt Adams able to step in, is a better option.

I don't hate on Scherzer. I just make the comments about his postseason performance to mock vark and his insistence on measuring a pitcher's performance on wins/losses. And Chris Sale has been to the playoffs once. Talk about a small sample size. And even if it is, you don't think that maybe Max, who had the same issue early in his career, might be of some use in correcting that?