Fire Dusty Baker!

[Leroy Veritas]

So you think Max was lying?

I think he's a team player toeing the company line. Also, the game logs are available for anyone who wants to look at them.

[skippy1999]

So you think Max was lying?

i think Max needs to be saved from himself sometimes which is what a flippin' manager is for!

[varoadking]

I think he's a team player toeing the company line.

   Yeah...Max strikes me as someone who would totally do that...

[varoadking]

i think Max needs to be saved from himself sometimes which is what a flippin' manager is for!

Look...I didn't think he should be out there, but I'm not gonna doubt Max when he says himself he needed that work. 

[Leroy Veritas]

Look...I didn't think he should be out there, but I'm not gonna doubt Max when he says himself he needed that work.

4 of the 5 previous starts he had gone over 100 pitches. He didn't need the work.

[skippy1999]

Look...I didn't think he should be out there, but I'm not gonna doubt Max when he says himself he needed that work. 

max also believes it is never time for him to come out of the game when sometimes it clearly is, like I said I think he needs to be saved from himself at times.

[Slateman]

There's this thing called a bullpen where Max could have gotten in some extra work after he was pulled.

But it's not the same and we both know this.

I'm totally okay with this. Frankly, Dusty should be doing this with a bunch of players. Guys like Robles and Severino should be getting a ton more playing time to see if we want them in the playoffs.

Get Max ramped up. Start pitching the top pen guys more than an inning.

[HalfSmokes]

If a track miler is running out of gas, does he improve his time the next time out if he quits 1/2 way to the finish this time?  Or should he push himself...even if he's going at 1/2 speed?

If they're seriously gassed and pull something because their form breaks down, then they aren't improving their speed. I don't care about Scherzer improving or reaching peak form in a single game, I care about him being healthy and at full strength for game 1 of the NLDS

[varoadking]

He didn't need the work.

Says you...

[varoadking]

If they're seriously gassed and pull something because their form breaks down, then they aren't improving their speed. I don't care about Scherzer improving or reaching peak form in a single game, I care about him being healthy and at full strength for game 1 of the NLDS

Healthy is nothing if he is ineffective....

[dcpatti]

Personally I think Max is way more in tune with his body and his mechanics than we mere mortals can imagine. Watching him take himself out of the game in Miami at the beginning of Pillowgate gave me a lot of confidence in his ability to set his ego aside and make a good decision. In seasons past he's talked about using September as a ramp-up for October, increasing his work load and intensity.  I don't think I am 100% sold on the idea but I trust that this was a joint decision between Max, Maddux and Dusty, and I accept that they know this stuff better than I do.

Just want to put this out there--- Matt Albers is going to be out on paternity leave any day now, and our September bullpen callups were Austin "Infinite ERA" Adams and pretty much nobody else. Bullpen management as a whole is going to be trickier for the next few days than it usually is in September since we didn't get a ton of new arms.  If Cole gets a start while Albers is out, it could be even more of a balancing act.  I think we all need to be prepared for some weird bullpen-related decisions till after Baby Albers has arrived and papa has returned to the team.

[HalfSmokes]

Healthy is nothing if he is ineffective....

It's not like this is his last start before the playoffs

[bluestreak]

In  Scherzer's 12 career playoff starts:

Through the sixth inning: 2.81 ERA, 0.97 WHIP, .178 BAA

After the sixth inning: 18.00 ERA, 2.75 WHIP, .429 BAA

I imagine he knows this stat better than anyone. And wants to prepare himself to go deeper into games so he is more effective in the postseason. I imagine he knows more about how to do this than anyone else. And certainly more than anyone here. It was a relatively meaningless game. If your 2 time CY Young Ace tells you that he wants to stay in and pitch 120 pitches in a game after you've clinched to better prepare himself for the playoffs you do it, every time, without question.

The fact that this is being questioned is beyond absurd.

[Leroy Veritas]

Says you...

At this point you're just arguing to do it. Read the freaking game logs. His pitch count is on pace with where it always is. 4 of the last 5 starts were 100+ pitches. It's asinine to say he needs to be ramped up when the evidence is clear that he's already there.

[Ray D]

max also believes it is never time for him to come out of the game when sometimes it clearly is,

I don't know about that, he pulled himself, completely on his own, and very emphatically, with the neck thing.

[skippy1999]

I don't know about that, he pulled himself, completely on his own, and very emphatically, with the neck thing.

that is true but he was obviously in pain and knew he couldn't pitch; I don't think he ever wants to admit or believe he's just plain out of gas, you know?

[bluestreak]

4 of the 5 previous starts he had gone over 100 pitches. He didn't need the work.

If they're seriously gassed and pull something because their form breaks down, then they aren't improving their speed. I don't care about Scherzer improving or reaching peak form in a single game, I care about him being healthy and at full strength for game 1 of the NLDS

max also believes it is never time for him to come out of the game when sometimes it clearly is, like I said I think he needs to be saved from himself at times.

This game did not matter. It's unlikely the rest of the season affects the Nat's playoff position. Scherzer has a legit reason for wanting to stay in. He has had an issue in the past that is backed up by stats. He claims to know his body and that this is a way for him to work on this.

It is unclear to me why so many people on here choose to believe that Max is simply making this up, or even more unbelievably, that they somehow know more about Scherzer's body, preparation or even pitching in general than he does.
It is absolutely crazy...

[skippy1999]

This game did not matter. It's unlikely the rest of the season affects the Nat's playoff position. Scherzer has a legit reason for wanting to stay in. He has had an issue in the past that is backed up by stats. He claims to know his body and that this is a way for him to work on this.

It is unclear to me why so many people on here choose to believe that Max is simply making this up, or even more unbelievably, that they somehow know more about Scherzer's body, preparation or even pitching in general than he does.
It is absolutely crazy...

It's a messageboard
 
But you know maybe Max hasn't been able to get past the 6th inning in the playoffs because he's WORN DOWN by then.  I'm sorry he's no spring chicken and I just don't see how pushing himself to throw MORE at this time of year in meaningless games in going to help him I just don't but I will be crazy happy to be proven wrong. 

[varoadking]

It's not like this is his last start before the playoffs

What does that mean...he should wait until his last start and then realize he isn't ready?

[bluestreak]

At this point you're just arguing to do it. Read the freaking game logs. His pitch count is on pace with where it always is. 4 of the last 5 starts were 100+ pitches. It's asinine to say he needs to be ramped up when the evidence is clear that he's already there.

I think he is arguing because he is right. What's asinine is to think that you somehow know what is better for Max Scherzer than Max Scherzer. And so what if he has gone over 100 in 4 of his past five starts? He said he wanted to go 120 because it would help him go deeper into games in the playoffs. I mean it doesn't take a genius to figure this out: If he increases his stamina so that he can pitch 120 pitches it probably will also makes pitches 80-100 more effective too.

It's clear you hate Dusty Baker to the point of hating literally everything he does. It is unclear to me the origin of this hate. Maybe you're Mark Prior or Kerry Wood. Maybe you are secretly Matt Williams. But it's clear to me you are the one arguing just to argue.

[varoadking]

At this point you're just arguing to do it. Read the freaking game logs. His pitch count is on pace with where it always is. 4 of the last 5 starts were 100+ pitches. It's asinine to say he needs to be ramped up when the evidence is clear that he's already there.

Leroy...the man said he needed the work.  I believe him.  Let it go...your hard-on for Rusty is clouding your judgement...

[aspenbubba]

Just want to put this out there--- Matt Albers is going to be out on paternity leave any day now, and our September bullpen callups were Austin "Infinite ERA" Adams and pretty much nobody else. Bullpen management as a whole is going to be trickier for the next few days than it usually is in September since we didn't get a ton of new arms.  If Cole gets a start while Albers is out, it could be even more of a balancing act.  I think we all need to be prepared for some weird bullpen-related decisions till after Baby Albers has arrived and papa has returned to the team.

I am also beginning to feel uneasy about the BP. Doo , Madson and Kintzler all have not looked great in the past week. Maybe not Doo as I can't recall but Madson almost blew Sundays game and Kintzler gave up three hits in a row last nite. Is it from overwork since they were acquired or just a coincidence. 

[spidernat]

I'll buy it when I see how he does in his next couple of starts and/or how he does in October.

Yes. If he comes out after 6 innings when he's up by 6 runs then we know what this was truly about.

[spidernat]

It's clear you hate Dusty Baker to the point of hating literally everything he does. It is unclear to me the origin of this hate.

Leroy...your hard-on for Rusty is clouding your judgement...

I think we may have found the problem. Dusty Baker doesn't reciprocate.

[Leroy Veritas]

I don't know about that, he pulled himself, completely on his own, and very emphatically, with the neck thing.

There's a huge difference between injured and tired/ineffective. Max won't admit the second one and a good manager would see it and make moves accordingly. The lengths people will go to in their effort to defend the horrible manager are laughable. Again, there are decades of evidence that he cannot manage a pitching staff and a trail of destroyed arms because of his incompetence.