Author Topic: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 331141 times)

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Offline rileyn

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #125: August 25, 2015, 06:26:34 AM »
I just don't know that I need to see 162 games worth of Michael Taylor. His OBP is below .300. Yeesh. If you're low contact, low average AND low walkrate...I mean, that's gonna be a lot of outs.

Bryce Harper is the production of like 4 players though, so if not buying some big time CF on the open market means we afford Harper I'll happily put up with league-best CF defense from Taylor with a questionable bat at worst and a clutch bat at best. But there is a serious question about the 4th outfielder, I really don't need to see any more of T-Mo. Love Clint Robinson but Zim will be plenty injured for him to play at 1B. Rizzo should try his hand at another Nate McClouth, a FA fourth outfielder. But, you know, much better this time.
Taylor is not supposed to be the everyday CF this year.  He was always projected for 2016 so he is a year early.  This year will help him immensely and I think he will break out next year.

Offline Jordanz Meatballz

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #126: August 25, 2015, 07:53:40 AM »
Trade for some Mets hitters.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #127: August 25, 2015, 07:54:55 AM »
I don't understand how Taylor became such a question mark. He's already over a 2 win player and he's only going to get better.


Because some of us are sick of strike out machines

Online Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #128: August 25, 2015, 08:34:14 AM »
I don't understand how Taylor became such a question mark. He's already over a 2 win player and he's only going to get better.
Is he going to get better? He's always going to have a ton of strikeouts. It seems like people are magically expecting him to become Adam Jones or Carlos Gomez, when he is more like Chris Young, Danny Espinosa, or Mike Cameron.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #129: August 25, 2015, 09:32:13 AM »
Mike Cameron might be the best of those 5 players. 

Taylor is more than fine in CF if you have a good leadoff hitter who replaces Span's OBP. That could be Turner. We will not know until he plays in the majors, but he projects to be that.  Werth might be that if you are stuck with not moving his contract.


Offline NatsAllThe Way

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #130: August 25, 2015, 10:09:21 AM »
I think we should offer the Mets our entire roster for their roster straight up.  We end up with the division winners from the year previous, and save a ton of money on payroll.

Make it happen Rizoo.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #131: August 25, 2015, 10:13:46 AM »
Mike Cameron might be the best of those 5 players. 

Taylor is more than fine in CF if you have a good leadoff hitter who replaces Span's OBP. That could be Turner. We will not know until he plays in the majors, but he projects to be that.  Werth might be that if you are stuck with not moving his contract.



I think Mike Cameron is his ceiling though. Realistically I think he falls in to that ~20 home run, .250 average, 27% Krate with an 8-10% walk rate.

On top of that, who replaces Werth when he goes on the DL next season? Signing Heyward gives the team a ton of flexiblity in the outfield next season. Taylor can give spot starts for Werth, replace him when he goes on the DL, and even start for Heyward against LHP. Heyward also gives you another lefty hitter and can hit leadoff if needed.

We keep Clint Robinson for first base and let Wilmer Difo develop a little more in Triple A and we have quality depth at all our injury prone positions. Make a move to get another relief pitcher or two and this team can be competitive next season.

Heyward - RF
Rendon - 3B/2B
Harper - CF
Zimmerman - 1B
Werth - LF
Escobar - 2B/3B
Ramos - C
Espinosa/Turner - SS

You can even play match ups where you let Taylor (or Robinson) in the OF and Espinosa start at short for LHP.

Offline varoadking

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #132: August 25, 2015, 11:26:02 AM »

We need short-term rentals...we're already saddled with too many lousy long-term contracts.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #133: August 25, 2015, 11:27:26 AM »
Heyward would be an upgrade but I want to see some other estimates on what he'd get.  What I am saying about Taylor is that he is starter material if you don't type-cast him as a leadoff hitter.  He could certainly come off the bench and be a great depth piece.  Good teams have depth.  I also think he is excellent trade bait if we did go our and sign a CF.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #134: August 25, 2015, 11:42:49 AM »
We need short-term rentals...we're already saddled with too many lousy long-term contracts.

Who? Werth has 2, Face 4. Max is the only other guy long-term, right now.

Online Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #135: August 25, 2015, 11:59:16 AM »
Not exactly long term, but doesn't Papelbon have 2 as well?
Who? Werth has 2, Face 4. Max is the only other guy long-term, right now.

Offline Truconfidence

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #136: August 25, 2015, 12:02:14 PM »
Not exactly long term, but doesn't Papelbon have 2 as well?
nah its just 2016.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #137: August 25, 2015, 12:10:05 PM »
Heyward would be an upgrade but I want to see some other estimates on what he'd get.  What I am saying about Taylor is that he is starter material if you don't type-cast him as a leadoff hitter.  He could certainly come off the bench and be a great depth piece.  Good teams have depth.  I also think he is excellent trade bait if we did go our and sign a CF.
I don't see how Heyward doesnt' get 150 million. Stanton got 325 million over 13 years. Kemp got 160 over 8. Ellsbury 153 million over 7 years.

Heyward's hitting doesn't measure up to those. However, if you factor in defense and age, he's easily worth 160 over 8 years.

Offline BrandonK

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #138: August 25, 2015, 12:17:52 PM »
I don't see how Heyward doesnt' get 150 million. Stanton got 325 million over 13 years. Kemp got 160 over 8. Ellsbury 153 million over 7 years.

Heyward's hitting doesn't measure up to those. However, if you factor in defense and age, he's easily worth 160 over 8 years.

Probably the case. Nats need a bat. Go for it. To hell with Werth's feelings; that's not getting the team anywhere. He can sit on his cash and hang out, or embrace being a role player his last two years.

Offline expofan

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #139: August 25, 2015, 12:41:16 PM »
I think we can trade Jayson werth to the reds joey votto. We might need to add a few prospects and also take on votto's huge contract for the next 6 or 8 years. Reds maybe willing because they get to rid themselves of votto's contract and rebuild with a younger team. Reds are not winning anytime soon so they maybe looking to shed some contracts. Then re sign span if he gives us a home town discount or sign heyward. Votto gives lineup another feard hitter to compliment harper.

Span/hewyard
Escobar
Harper
Votto
Rendon/zim
Zim/rendon
Turner/espi
Ramos

Rzim may need to move to left left. I know he maynot have the arm but he will be adequate in LF. He can also spell votto at 1B. Turner can bat at the bottom , less pressure on him.


Online Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #140: August 25, 2015, 12:45:27 PM »
Probably the case. Nats need a bat. Go for it. To hell with Werth's feelings; that's not getting the team anywhere. He can sit on his cash and hang out, or embrace being a role player his last two years.
Honestly, I think he still has another year in him of productivity. He's in LF. If he can maintain his average and OBP, I can live with him in LF for another year. Taylor can wait another year or two.

Offline varoadking

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #141: August 25, 2015, 12:53:26 PM »
I think we can trade Jayson werth to the reds joey votto.

 :spit:

Offline deeznatz

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #142: August 25, 2015, 12:53:31 PM »
Heyward would be an upgrade but I want to see some other estimates on what he'd get.  What I am saying about Taylor is that he is starter material if you don't type-cast him as a leadoff hitter.  He could certainly come off the bench and be a great depth piece.  Good teams have depth.  I also think he is excellent trade bait if we did go our and sign a CF.

If we have Span and Werth in the OF next year no way we trade Taylor as we'll definitely need him to spell the old guys and probably even start a bunch of games due to injury.

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #143: August 25, 2015, 12:54:26 PM »
I don't see how Heyward doesnt' get 150 million.

My problem with Heyward - and for the record I agree someone is going to pay him that much - is that he's a BIG guy, defense/baserunning peaks early, and his offense never came around. Interestingly, offensively he's a bit like Ryan Zimmerman. Heyward's two big early years averaged about 27 offensive runs produced and Zimmerman's were 29. Bu neither was able to sustain really high offensive production for whatever reason and became just okay hitters.

So my worry for Heyward is the same as for Zimmerman, in retrospect: what happens if injuries/age sap his defensive/baserunning value? Then you're taking a big bet on Heyward's bat, or else he's a $20 million/year 2 WAR player. I just find it hard to believe he's going to be producing 1.5-2 wins of value out of his legs and in the field as a 6'5" 250 lb RF into his 30s.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #144: August 25, 2015, 12:57:32 PM »
I think we can trade Jayson werth to the reds joey votto. We might need to add a few prospects and also take on votto's huge contract for the next 6 or 8 years. Reds maybe willing because they get to rid themselves of votto's contract and rebuild with a younger team. Reds are not winning anytime soon so they maybe looking to shed some contracts. Then re sign span if he gives us a home town discount or sign heyward. Votto gives lineup another feard hitter to compliment harper.

Span/hewyard
Escobar
Harper
Votto
Rendon/zim
Zim/rendon
Turner/espi
Ramos

Rzim may need to move to left left. I know he maynot have the arm but he will be adequate in LF. He can also spell votto at 1B. Turner can bat at the bottom , less pressure on him.



:lmao:

Offline BrandonK

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #145: August 25, 2015, 12:58:38 PM »
My problem with Heyward - and for the record I agree someone is going to pay him that much - is that he's a BIG guy, defense/baserunning peaks early, and his offense never came around. Interestingly, offensively he's a bit like Ryan Zimmerman. Heyward's two big early years averaged about 27 offensive runs produced and Zimmerman's were 29. Bu neither was able to sustain really high offensive production for whatever reason and became just okay hitters.

So my worry for Heyward is the same as for Zimmerman, in retrospect: what happens if injuries/age sap his defensive/baserunning value? Then you're taking a big bet on Heyward's bat, or else he's a $20 million/year 2 WAR player. I just find it hard to believe he's going to be producing 1.5-2 wins of value out of his legs and in the field as a 6'5" 250 lb RF into his 30s.

I kind of agree (a reason why I don't think he'll stick in CF either). Depending on the price, Cespedes, Upton, or Gordon look better options.

Offline expofan

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #146: August 25, 2015, 01:03:23 PM »
:spit:
I know it may sound crazy but fielder was traded for lesser talent.so were many players because teams want to shed salary and rebuild.

Online Slateman

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #147: August 25, 2015, 01:45:27 PM »
My problem with Heyward - and for the record I agree someone is going to pay him that much - is that he's a BIG guy, defense/baserunning peaks early, and his offense never came around. Interestingly, offensively he's a bit like Ryan Zimmerman. Heyward's two big early years averaged about 27 offensive runs produced and Zimmerman's were 29. Bu neither was able to sustain really high offensive production for whatever reason and became just okay hitters.

So my worry for Heyward is the same as for Zimmerman, in retrospect: what happens if injuries/age sap his defensive/baserunning value? Then you're taking a big bet on Heyward's bat, or else he's a $20 million/year 2 WAR player. I just find it hard to believe he's going to be producing 1.5-2 wins of value out of his legs and in the field as a 6'5" 250 lb RF into his 30s.

That's going to be a concern for every OFer who has good base running and defense. But Heyward is 26. Age should not be an issue. Injury wise ... I can see the concern. He's the same height as Werth, about the same size. He has had some injury concerns. But in terms of regression, Heyward shouldn't have any. In theory, he isn't even in his prime yet.  And you run this age/injury regression issue with every free agent.

But Heyward is posting his best batting average and OBP since his rookie season. Heyward is swinging at the same number of pitches, but making contact and still not striking out a lot (~16%). That's huge on this team. He's shown what happens if he gets healthy. And if you discount the horrendous start the first month of the season, in which he had some bad luck and was also adapting to his new hitting approach/stance, he's put up some great numbers. An OPS well over .800. GG caliber defense in RF.

Combine that with a nice pay day and a chance to face his old team again, and yea, the Nats could grab themselves a nice outfield.

I kind of agree (a reason why I don't think he'll stick in CF either). Depending on the price, Cespedes, Upton, or Gordon look better options.
Gordon will be over 30 and, so far, can only play LF. Cespedes will be 30 and he has the kind of skill set that will regress fast. You dislike strikeouts now? Just wait until his climb up about 10 points.

Justin Upton would be unique, but you have another high strikeout guy who plays really poor defense in LF, but a decent arm.

All three of those guys are guys you sign and say, well, I know he got 5/6/7 years, but I'm really expecting about three years worth of production out of them. Heyward is someone you sign for 8 and say I'm getting  3-5 years of prime production.

Heyward is a guy you sign to continue to compete right up until Harper's contract runs out and in to his extension. That's a monster part of the lineup, with guys like Turner and Difo (hopefully) progressing in to top of the order hitters.

Offline whytev

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #148: August 25, 2015, 03:46:24 PM »
I think Mike Cameron is his ceiling though. Realistically I think he falls in to that ~20 home run, .250 average, 27% Krate with an 8-10% walk rate.

On top of that, who replaces Werth when he goes on the DL next season? Signing Heyward gives the team a ton of flexiblity in the outfield next season. Taylor can give spot starts for Werth, replace him when he goes on the DL, and even start for Heyward against LHP. Heyward also gives you another lefty hitter and can hit leadoff if needed.

We keep Clint Robinson for first base and let Wilmer Difo develop a little more in Triple A and we have quality depth at all our injury prone positions. Make a move to get another relief pitcher or two and this team can be competitive next season.

Heyward - RF
Rendon - 3B/2B
Harper - CF
Zimmerman - 1B
Werth - LF
Escobar - 2B/3B
Ramos - C
Espinosa/Turner - SS

You can even play match ups where you let Taylor (or Robinson) in the OF and Espinosa start at short for LHP.

Harper in CF is not the best idea. You're gonna feel the difference compared to Span/Taylor.

Offline whytev

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Re: 2015-2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #149: August 25, 2015, 03:48:56 PM »
Can we all agree Span isn't staying and Werth isn't going anywhere?

Let's just drop that.

I agree Heyward would be nice. Cespedes too. Can either of them play CF worth a damn?