The Garage

[GburgNatsFan]

I doubt it emits less nitrous oxide.

Still emits less than gas trucks and SUVs (which also get terrible MPG). Your car will be worth more.

Unless diesel becomes impossible to find at stations...

[tomterp]

I doubt it emits less nitrous oxide.

Or particulate matter.

[GburgNatsFan]

If particulate matter matters.

Seriously though, I've wanted a Golf with the 1.8L turbo gasser. I'll bet I can get a deal...

Or particulate matter.

[tomterp]

If particulate matter matters.

Seriously though, I've wanted a Golf with the 1.8L turbo gasser. I'll bet I can get a deal...

Sure, it matters as much as any pollutant. 

http://www.epa.gov/region07/air/quality/pmhealth.htm

They are of health concern because they easily reach the deepest recesses of the lungs.
Batteries of scientific studies have linked particulate matter, especially fine particles (alone or in combination with other air pollutants), with a series of significant health problems, including:

Premature death;

Respiratory related hospital admissions and emergency room visits;

Aggravated asthma;

Acute respiratory symptoms, including aggravated coughing and difficult or painful breathing;

Chronic bronchitis;

Decreased lung function that can be experienced as shortness of breath; and

Work and school absences.

[GburgNatsFan]

Yeah, I was just riffing on "particulate matter."

Sure, it matters as much as any pollutant. 

http://www.epa.gov/region07/air/quality/pmhealth.htm

[tomterp]

Yeah, I was just riffing on "particulate matter."

Sorry, your humor was beneath my sensor's detection threshhold.

By the way, I found that a plain 2-door Golf with automatic trans is selling for just over an 8% discount from MSRP.

[dracnal]

Sorry, your humor was beneath my sensor's detection threshhold.

Sounds like a software issue. Was it installed by VW?

[GburgNatsFan]

If it was installed by VW, it would have tested to see if the recipients front wheels were spinning or turning left to right before decreasing the humor flow to decrease the likelihood of humor detection.

Sounds like a software issue. Was it installed by VW?

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

This was never an issue with Trabants

[whytev]

Enjoy the last of the diesel cars  on the American roads.

Ugh. I've been a loyalist for years. This is my second one, and my first ever new car. Now it's going to be worth nothing and perform badly (once it gets the update). I'd better be in on a class action suit.

To make matters worse, I just inherited another one which I was just about to sell! Do I sit on it?

[The Chief]

I keep hearing that the reason VW cheated was because U.S. emissions requirements for Diesel passenger vehicles are absurdly strict (compared to Euro regs).  Anyone knowledgeable care to comment?  No stake in the matter, just curious.

[whytev]

I keep hearing that the reason VW cheated was because U.S. emissions requirements for Diesel passenger vehicles are absurdly strict (compared to Euro regs).  Anyone knowledgeable care to comment?

It's true. It started with California actually. There was a year that diesels didn't even exist because they couldn't figure it out. 2008 I think.

One think that was a side effect of the new strictness is that the new diesels can't run bio. I was on bio with my 2000, but I had to switch because the extra fuel used up in the process explained in that Vox article gummed up the works. So I went from dirty diesel on hamburger grease to clean diesel on fossil. I thought it was a good tradeoff, but apparently not.

[tomterp]

Ugh. I've been a loyalist for years. This is my second one, and my first ever new car. Now it's going to be worth nothing and perform badly (once it gets the update). I'd better be in on a class action suit.

To make matters worse, I just inherited another one which I was just about to sell! Do I sit on it?

Yes, collect your settlement check before selling it.

[whytev]

Yes, collect your settlement check before selling it.

The one I inherited is older. Pre-scandal. I think it will be harder to sell anyway because people don't actually read.

[HalfSmokes]

I keep hearing that the reason VW cheated was because U.S. emissions requirements for Diesel passenger vehicles are absurdly strict (compared to Euro regs).  Anyone knowledgeable care to comment?  No stake in the matter, just curious.

the standards are moving together (both are getting stricter- I'm wouldn't be surprised if the VWs turn out fail Euro 6 standards) but, generally, we care more about particulates and NOx (which diesels have a lot of trouble with), the EU cares more about CO2- so different emphasis (smog vs. climate change).

It's true. It started with California actually. There was a year that diesels didn't even exist because they couldn't figure it out. 2008 I think.

cheap diesels without dreadful performance will be hard to come by soon enough (Mazda has basically given up trying to get a 3 diesel here)

[tomterp]

I keep hearing that the reason VW cheated was because U.S. emissions requirements for Diesel passenger vehicles are absurdly strict (compared to Euro regs).  Anyone knowledgeable care to comment?  No stake in the matter, just curious.

Oh yes, Euro standards are very lax by comparison, but that's about to change.  Mayor of Paris just called for banning all diesels from the city by 2020.  They are gagging on the air pollution, it's much worse than ours.  50% of Euro cars are diesels, too.

I think it's an over simplification to say "the reason VW cheated was because U.S. emissions requirements for Diesel passenger vehicles are absurdly strict ".  BMW apparently meets the standard with acceptable performance with at least one of its cars (X5).  VW wanted outstanding performance PLUS clean air, and let the performance path dictate.  I bet BMW goes the more expensive urea injection system though.  VW cut corners to control cost.  Oh, but that mid-range torque!

[HalfSmokes]

I think it's an over simplification to say "the reason VW cheated was because U.S. emissions requirements for Diesel passenger vehicles are absurdly strict ".  BMW apparently meets the standard with acceptable performance with at least one of its cars (X5).  VW wanted outstanding performance PLUS clean air, and let the performance path dictate.  I bet BMW goes the more expensive urea injection system though.  VW cut corners to control cost.  Oh, but that mid-range torque!

the X5  Diesel has a base price of almost 58k- that allows a lot more room for expensive modifications to exhaust. I don't think we ever see diesels again on cheaper cars

[tomterp]

the X5  Diesel has a base price of almost 58k- that allows a lot more room for expensive modifications to exhaust. I don't think we ever see diesels again on cheaper cars

Oh, I wouldn't say never.  Technology has changed a lot over the years with respect to emissions, so it would not be surprising to me if someone didn't come up with a cost effective way to combust or filter out the contaminants.  But with current technology I agree.

[Dave B]

That's some good secret keeping. 6 years

[GburgNatsFan]

The Chevy Cruze with it's Italian-made GM diesel engine passes all emissions standards. It uses urea injection to do so, like the much more expensive BMWs and Mercs. It lists for around $25K.

It can't be that hard or that expensive. VW uses urea injection in the Passat.

Edit: And it's not like VW doesn't know how to make high performance gasoline engines that compare favorably to most other brands.

I keep hearing that the reason VW cheated was because U.S. emissions requirements for Diesel passenger vehicles are absurdly strict (compared to Euro regs).  Anyone knowledgeable care to comment?  No stake in the matter, just curious.

[HattoriHanzo]

I wonder if VW will have to sell off some of their brands.  They will need a lot of money for compensation payments.

[GburgNatsFan]

They have brands beyond VW and it's male division, Audi?

I wonder if VW will have to sell off some of their brands.  They will need a lot of money for compensation payments.

[HalfSmokes]

They have brands beyond VW and it's male division, Audi?

Porsche skoda Bugatti Lamborghini Bentley Ducati and probably a bunch more

[tomterp]

Porsche skoda Bugatti Lamborghini Bentley Ducati and probably a bunch more

These may not all be car brands, didn't check them out yet.

http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/brands_and_products.html

   

Volkswagen

    Audi

    SEAT

    ŠKODA

    Bentley

    Bugatti

    Lamborghini

    Porsche

    Ducati

    Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles

    Scania

    MAN

[mitlen]

These may not all be car brands, didn't check them out yet.

http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/brands_and_products.html

   

Holy crap.    Hope my Bentley passes emissions.