Author Topic: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?  (Read 2430 times)

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Offline mitlen

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Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« on: August 06, 2014, 03:20:36 pm »


I find it bothersome at times that we let guys like Espi-NO-sa crap the bed over and over and never move him.    The young guys get tossed around like old dolls.    Is it an "options" thing or does Espi-NO-sa actually have value?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 03:22:18 pm »
I find it bothersome at times that we let guys like Espi-NO-sa crap the bed over and over and never move him.    The young guys get tossed around like old dolls.    Is it an "options" thing or does Espi-NO-sa actually have value?

espinosa has options, so it's a screw with young guys thing

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 03:22:53 pm »
I find it bothersome at times that we let guys like Espi-NO-sa crap the bed over and over and never move him.    The young guys get tossed around like old dolls.    Is it an "options" thing or does Espi-NO-sa actually have value?
He has value, just not much at the plate.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 03:31:40 pm »
I find it bothersome at times that we let guys like Espi-NO-sa crap the bed over and over and never move him.    The young guys get tossed around like old dolls.    Is it an "options" thing or does Espi-NO-sa actually have value?
Can you identify a bettter back up middle infield glove in this system right now?  he's the 4th option PH, so that's not why he's on the team.  He can be spotted in against lefties.  also, while Cabby has looked pretty good so far at 2d, i think they want a defensive sub ready for close and late leads.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2014, 03:42:43 pm »
Can you identify a bettter back up middle infield glove in this system right now?  he's the 4th option PH, so that's not why he's on the team.  He can be spotted in against lefties.  also, while Cabby has looked pretty good so far at 2d, i think they want a defensive sub ready for close and late leads.

he has the 6th most at bats on the team- that's not a 4th option PH

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2014, 03:47:07 pm »
he has the 6th most at bats on the team- that's not a 4th option PH
how he was used does not matter right now. What matters is how he is being used now.  He's not a full time starter due to injuries like he was when he piled up those PAs. We have Cabrera now, so that changes Espinosa's role in this line up.   how many pinch hit appearances has he had in August?  Heck, even before that, how many did he have?

Offline mitlen

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 03:52:47 pm »
Can you identify a bettter back up middle infield glove in this system right now?  he's the 4th option PH, so that's not why he's on the team.  He can be spotted in against lefties.  also, while Cabby has looked pretty good so far at 2d, i think they want a defensive sub ready for close and late leads.

Mindfact:    I don't think his defensive abilities outweigh his inability to hit a ball, especially from the left side.    From the left side, he is not a PH option.    IMHO Espinosa has muffed a few routine plays recently (short tossing Desi messing up a double play, dropped pop up in short right, etc.).    I simply don't see the value of him taking up a spot on the roster.    It goes to my point of keeping him and jetisoning young guys.

Offline imref

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2014, 04:14:05 pm »
Mindfact:    I don't think his defensive abilities outweigh his inability to hit a ball, especially from the left side.    From the left side, he is not a PH option.    IMHO Espinosa has muffed a few routine plays recently (short tossing Desi messing up a double play, dropped pop up in short right, etc.).    I simply don't see the value of him taking up a spot on the roster.    It goes to my point of keeping him and jetisoning young guys.

you could make a case that with Fransden, we don't need Danny anymore.  Fransden can play 1B/2B/3B, Cabrera can play either SS or 2B, so if Desi had to come out you could insert Fransden and shift over Cabrera.  I wonder if Danny's spot would be better filled by Eury Perez who could be a pinch runner off the bench and another defensive replacement in the OF.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2014, 04:24:27 pm »
you could make a case that with Fransden, we don't need Danny anymore.  Fransden can play 1B/2B/3B, Cabrera can play either SS or 2B, so if Desi had to come out you could insert Fransden and shift over Cabrera.  I wonder if Danny's spot would be better filled by Eury Perez who could be a pinch runner off the bench and another defensive replacement in the OF.

I don't wanna come off as a "hater" but I'm confounded as to why they keep him.    Oh well, I got a new supply of "tot" for this evening's game.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2014, 05:09:34 pm »
you could make a case that with Fransden, we don't need Danny anymore.  Fransden can play 1B/2B/3B, Cabrera can play either SS or 2B, so if Desi had to come out you could insert Fransden and shift over Cabrera.  I wonder if Danny's spot would be better filled by Eury Perez who could be a pinch runner off the bench and another defensive replacement in the OF.
Blue and I were talking (really, he was talking and I made good eye contact so he thought I was listening), and he made the point that right now, Kobernus would be more useful on the roster than Espinosa for the pinch running and position versatility.  You make a good point about Cabrera really filling the 2d SS role now. I still don't think Frandsen is a fraction of Espinosa defensively at 2d, but maybe a PR is more useful at this point than DE.

Look, I don't want to come off as too much of an apologist for Espinosa, but he's actually hitting well as a righty v. lefties.  I'm not sure what part of a .309 / .385 / .494 slash line there is you object to.  He'll probably boot 3 balls and K 4 times tonight, but I just don't have a problem playing him when you have a groundball pitcher throwing for us and a lefty on the mound for the opponent.  You can say that happens too few times to justify his spot on the roster vs. a pinch runner or some other balance of skills, but right now, I'd rather have a ball hit to him in a close game with a lead than some of the other options.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Re: Matt Thornton waiver claim excitement
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2014, 05:12:32 pm »
Blue and I were talking (really, he was talking and I made good eye contact so he thought I was listening),  ....

 :spit:

Took me a few seconds to get past that line.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2014, 05:15:23 pm »
 
don't have a problem playing him when you have a groundball pitcher throwing for us and a lefty on the mound for the opponent.  You can say that happens too few times to justify his spot on the roster vs. a pinch runner or some other balance of skills, but right now, I'd rather have a ball hit to him in a close game with a lead than some of the other options.

Right.  This thread is  "Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?" which is two questions, but given that he is on the roster, he belongs in tonight's lineup.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2014, 05:19:47 pm »
Full disclosure:   I didn't start this thread.    It was peeled off another thread that I apparently hijacked.   :)     So please, no hate mail or threats of bodily harm.    I was simply a passenger.   

"I was hitch hiking officer."

Offline blue911

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2014, 05:25:24 pm »
PC had mentioned Kobernus over Espinosa about a week ago. When you look at how Williams uses his bench it isn't that far out. Besides he's coming back from breaking his hand so he'll fit right in.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2014, 05:29:02 pm »
I did the split, and the finger prints are on where the thread comes from.

I did not tack it onto the "same old same old" thread because I think the situation has pretty clearly changed.  It even started before Asdrubel got here.  It seemed Williams was pretty often playing him with Fister pitching for defense and that he was also spotting him in against lefties.  He also occasionally would be swapped in when we had a lead and it was close, especially when Zimmerman was healthy.  That use looks like it may be gone since Asdrubel seems to be fielding 2d OK. 

We really can't debate too much DE's skills anymore.  It's more a usage question both of roster space and occasionally line up space.  Is someone in this role useful for the next 3 - 4 weeks before rosters expand and we can have an ample bench?  What is the internal alternative?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2014, 05:30:03 pm »
PC had mentioned Kobernus over Espinosa about a week ago. When you look at how Williams uses his bench it isn't that far out. Besides he's coming back from breaking his hand so he'll fit right in.
Does the organization fine guys for giving each other fist bumps?

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2014, 05:40:11 pm »
Does the organization fine guys for giving each other fist bumps?
Let him only play against lefties occasionally and late inning defense.
He seems to have accepted his new role.  The new guy at second has not exactly gotten off to a good start.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2014, 05:40:20 pm »
I did the split, and the finger prints are on where the thread comes from.


People have been railroaded in this country before for lesser crimes than hijacking a thread.    I'll wait 'til the DNA evidence comes back before I relax.    ;)     I need a lawyer.    Know where I can find one?

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2014, 06:56:14 pm »
Espinosa did turn things around a bit and had been hitting pretty well the last few weeks.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2014, 07:27:38 pm »
Mike likes to play him with fister because of all the ground balls.  I like it because it is proof that Williams has the potential to think.


Offline nfotiu

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2014, 07:34:33 pm »
you could make a case that with Fransden, we don't need Danny anymore.  Fransden can play 1B/2B/3B, Cabrera can play either SS or 2B, so if Desi had to come out you could insert Fransden and shift over Cabrera.  I wonder if Danny's spot would be better filled by Eury Perez who could be a pinch runner off the bench and another defensive replacement in the OF.

Is Perez really any faster.   I think espi is the fastest guy on the team and will see plenty of use as a pinch runner down the stretch.

Offline Dave301

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2014, 07:43:47 pm »
Mike likes to play him with fister because of all the ground balls.  I like it because it is proof that Williams has the potential to think.
That's what he said before they got Cabrera. He isn't too shabby with the glove either. I think it has more to do with them facing a lefty tonight.

Offline nfotiu

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2014, 07:57:15 pm »
That's what he said before they got Cabrera. He isn't too shabby with the glove either. I think it has more to do with them facing a lefty tonight.

Cabrera missed a dp ball that put us down 5-1 instead of getting out of the inning at 2-1.  Danny gets that ball 19 out of 20 times IMO.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2014, 08:17:03 pm »
Good defense. Good against lefties

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Why is Espinosa in the line up and on the roster?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2014, 08:44:24 pm »
Quote
Mark Zuckerman ‏@ZuckermanCSN  now 
 Danny Espinosa vs. lefties this season: .310/.383/.524. That's a .907 OPS.